Live Blog of the CNN / LA Times / Politico Clinton - Obama Debate In Hollywood, California (January 31, 2007)

6:36: Tonight, it’s not about hope, it’s about hype.

The final scheduled debate of primary season is here. Finally. After 19 Republican debates and what will be tonight be the 21 debates for Democrats, it will finally be over. Aside from any debates that get scheduled on Meet the Press or some other show (please, no more Tim Russert.) We’re glad you stuck with us through all of this.

Of course, this will be the first of any of these debates to include only two people, making it either exceptionally theatrical or exceptionally meaningful. Frankly, it’s too soon to tell.

And with this much on the line, you want as much information as possible. That’s why CNN was kind enough to give us the best information they had available: a time lapsed video of the set being constructed. (We’re going to be in for a LONG night, folks).

Clinton! Obama! Blitzer! NO RULES!

Tonight, 8 ET. Live online on the CNN and LA Times webpages.

6:56: The Washington Post’s “Fact Checker” has the headline: “Democratic Debate, Jan. 30, 2008.” You cannot make this stuff up. It’s even in the URL!

7:31: Let me be quick on goals for tonight. Obama needs to make sure he maintains likability, especially after the whole (stupid) snub thing from the State of the Union. Clinton needs to distinguish herself from Obama as much as she can while maintaining the look of a frontrunner. And Blitzer needs to somehow regain his dignity.

Meanwhile, Bill Schneider on CNN invokes Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure in comparison to this debate. You know, the movie where Keanu Reeves was the good actor.

7:51: Leo Dicaprio, Steven Spielberg, Rob Reiner, and more are apparently in the house.

7:54: CNN notes that there’s signs against the war and signs for Ron Paul. Has such a large movement ever been worse than the Paul people at convincing people to even listen to their position? Even the 9/11 Truthers get more people to take them seriously.

7:56: CNN’s British comparison notes that it’s “almost a certainty” that the Democrats will nominate a woman or a black President. At an economic class, the top issue is apparently … the economy. Thanks, CNN!

7:58: Melissa Long points out how expensive the Kodak Theater was to build, and then runs the stupid time lapse video I referenced above. She then stresses that she walked by Brandy earlier. Uhm, wow.

8:00: Blitzer says we’re in the midst of glamour. Thanks, Wolf.

8:02: It’s the first time a woman and an African-American will be vying for the Democratic nomination, says Wolf. Really? Are you sure? Wolf moves on to introducing the press pool. Then, Clinton and Obama come out together, all smiles.

8:03: Three symbolic white folks come out to remind people others consider them important.

8:04: Blitzer demands that the press pool leave, and he says this “will be a debate in a traditional sense.” Oh yeah? Who’s on government and who is on opposition? Oh wait, they don’t mean that.

8:05: NO RULES! Opening statements.

8:06: Obama starts by thanking John Edwards. PANDER ALERT! Then says that either he or Hillary will be the next President, and that they are and will be friends. (FIX THE SNUB!). The segues into a few sentences from his stump speech. Says its not about demographics, but looking backwards or the future. Says it’s more than change from George Bush.

8:08: Clinton says its about 1/20/09, and it will be Barack or her, and who can deal with the problems sitting on the desk that date. Cites Iraq, Afghanistan, the economy, health insurance, energy, global warming, and other problems that will emerge. Goes over her Day 1 schtick, before citing the Edwardses (Obama cited Elizabeth too). Cites those living in poverty. Says that a problem solver who rolls up their sleeves is important.

8:11: First question is what Clinton considers the most important policy difference? She says he’s not a Republican at first. Well, thanks. Goes over health care, saying hers is like Edwards’. PANDER ALERT. She wants a moratorium on foreclosures for 90 days and to freeze interest rates for 5 years. She wants to be realistic and optimistic on foreign affairs. She does not want the prestige of the Presidency on the line to meet with dictators in the first year. She tries to link Republicans with the status quo and both of them with change.

8:14: Obama says those are generally differences. Cites health care being 95% the same, citing how both would help people like his mother. Says the problem is reducing costs of health care and making it affordable. Says Clinton would force people to buy it, and it requires an enforcement mechanism (applause). He says that they agree to keep people in their home. Says that he does not want an interest rates freeze as that would cause other rates to go way up. Blames it on Bush and a lack of oversight, and links it lobbyists, and says that it’s a real difference on influence. Cites Edwards (JE PANDER ALERT). Cites differing judgment on Iraq looking forward to show how they would differ. Cites the NIE on Iran.

Great start, mainly with no Wolf.

8:19: Question on Obama’s plan being voluntary. Why would his plan be superior if 15 million are left out. Obama says anyone who wants it can get it. Obama says that means there are 15 million who do not want it, and he disputes that. Mandatory for children, and people up to 25 will be covered under parents. Obama cites Massachusetts plan that has problems with mandates. Says what do you do with people who cannot afford it, citing garnishing wages.

8:21: Wolf says it’s a difference. Gee, thanks. Clinton is passionate about it, citing in passing ‘tackling it during my husband’s administration.’ Clinton says that her plan is to help the uninsured and underinsured. Says her plan is “aggressive” and provides “subsidies.” How is that different? I’m not sure. Mentions health care tax credits. Is that the ghost of Giuliani? Says that single-payer, mandate employers, or shared responsibility are the only three options. Clinton says Obama does nto think it would be politically feasible for mandates for adults, as Obama cooly shakes his head and indicates he wants a response. Cites Edwards on “biting the bullet.” (JE PANDER ALERT)

8:24: Wolf jumps in about those that do not buy in getting sick. Obama says that paying back premiums for those gaming the system. Obama says some subsidies on Clinton’s plan are insufficient. He says he wants to lower premiums, not cap them. Cites Ted Kennedy saying that Obama can pass health care. Says that you need to bring Republicans and Democrats together and not negotiate behind close doors, and instead broadcast negotiations on CSPAN. That’s a bit naive. Wolf asks if the CSPAN thing is a swipe at Clinton, Obama says transparency offsets the power of lobbyists. CNN cuts to Rob Reiner.

8:28: Blitzer cites the health care plan being formed in secret in 1993. Clinton says it was the beginning of a “conversation.” Uh, dodge. Cites S-CHIP. She wants to regulate the health care industry to covering everyone. Really? Under what authority can you make a private company do that, exactly? I’m genuinely curious. Clinton says too much is spent on the clinical studies and experimentation and Medicare needs to be able to negotiate. Finishes where she started, with calling for universal health care. Cites the attack ads in 1994 about what people want and will accept. Talks about persuading Congress to air meetings on CSPAN being hard. Sigh. What a dumb area to have a disagreement over. Talks about building a pro-health coalition.

8:31: Why are you raising taxes to pay for health care? Obama says the GOP lost fiscal responsibility, and suddenly Obama rips into McCain way more than Romney did by saying that the Straight Talk Express lost its wheels after he stopped criticizing the Bush tax cuts. Moves into what his tax plan, been there done that. Buffet paying too little, and middle class too much, etc. And George Costanza is in the building. Someone needs to knee-cap the director here.

8:35: Clinton would allow tax cuts of those earning over $250k to expire. Talks about how bad US health care is for what they spend. Cites infant mortality rate. Cites other ideas, like electronic medical records and the Rand Corporation. Wolf wants to be precise!

8:37: Will there be an effective tax hike? They both start answering, and Clinton defers before Obama does, and he jokes about the rich crowd there being able to pay a bit more. Clinton wants to underscore that they are the tax rates of pre-Bush.

8:38: Immigration, now. What about the negative impact of immigration on the African American community? Obama first. He cites his work as an organizer and that the insecurity is beyond any one race. Says that it is scapegoating to just blame immigrants. Says that getting control of the borders is important, as it cracking down on employers. Cites a pathway to citizenship for illegals already here. Cites the problem being a problem of a bad economy, infrastructure and education.

8:42: Drivers license for illegals for Clinton. She says that employers exploit undocumented workers and there are job losses. Cites a black man telling her that he cannot get construction jobs anymore. Talks about helping “friends to the south” create more jobs as well. Goes over what the standards for citizenship would be. Says drivers license would be a ‘privilege’ that you can only address down the line.

8:46: Obama is asked about when he stood up for immigration. Cites who he worked with, again getting a dig on McCain. Says it does not poll well but it is the right thing to do. Blitzer thinks he was insulting Clinton. Obama says you have to stand up when its tough, not on the campaign. Wolf does not understand! He says that if you pass comprehensive immigration reform, you won’t have to deal with drivers licenses.

8:48: Wolf asks if she was MIA. Clinton says she cosponsored a bill before Obama came to the Senate. Do people understand how easy it is to cosponsor something? I just cosponsored 5 things. Done. She segues into discussing her endorsement of the Farm Workers. People out there are nervous about immigration and people are looking for some immigration. Clinton says she asks people what they would do about it, and they then understand. Wolf says what about drivers licenses. Clinton says it is a diversion from building a coalition.

8:51: Obama says she gave numerous answers before. Obama says it is a difficult political issue, and he agrees with Richardson (PANDER) on the issue. Says they agree more between themselves.

8:52: Clinton says they agree on that, and that she was supporting her governor but did not agree and Obama did not answer a question a week later. Says fair minded Republicans will join them on the issue.

Garkbit … err, I mean … Wolf Blitzer throws us to a break.

8:57: Question for Obama on Clinton being more experienced. Obama says a lot of Americans disagree as well. Says that he spent his life trying to bring about change. Organizer, civil rights attorney, legislator, and Senator. Says that bringing people, ethical reform, and talking straight is important. Says he respects Clinton’s experience but the skills he needs are important.

9:00: Wolf asks what of her experience in the White House means. She says it goes back 35 years to the Children’s Defense Fund. She worked for the Legal Services Corporation and grew it. Aide to prisoners and reform in Arkansas. Says she had responsibility in the White House, and if she was not successful, she got SCHIP through. Drug reform and adoption from foster care reform as well. Talks about negotiating with the Macedonian government and talking about women’s rights in Beijing. Said she worked with people who did not think they would work with her.

9:02: An ONLINE question! Ooooooohhhh! What about a running a government like a business like Romney? Clinton says government is not a business, and George W. Bush is a CEO type.

9:04: Obama says that his management style over the past year compares well, and Romney did not get a good return on his investment. Obama’s pretty funny tonight.

9:05: Clinton is asked about the endorsement of Ted Kennedy, she says she has her own Kennedys and that being the first woman president is a big change. I think actually making that argument is pretty bad; it’s about what the President does, not what race or gender they are. If George Bush turned out to be a woman, would that change anything for anyone? Aside from Laura Bush, probably not. Clinton then segues into a long discussion of whom you vote for based no the person themselves.

9:07: For Obama, how should you remember the Clinton administration? Obama says they look good, especially compared to the Bush Administration. Agrees you have to decide on whom they are. Obama says that he is bringing in a whole new generation of voters. Says part of being President is not settling and is reaching out to people. Obama talks up the high level of support he brings in (being careful to not take total credit).

9:10: Another online question: How can you have change when there is the Bush / Clinton thing. Pierce Brosnan in the house! I wonder if he pretended to kill some old guy in the bathroom with Greg Kinnear. She says she is proud of Bill’s administration. Talks up the change under Bill of jobs and surpluses. gives the line about takinga Clinton to clean up after a Bush to some insane applause for a line that’s been around for 9 months.

Wolf throws to a break! Just remember: “The purpose of the office of the president is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it.”

9:16: Wolf tells us people are outside. Sucks for them. Iraq! Both called for gradual withdrawal; why should people not worry about an open ended commitment. Talks about how she got into an argument with the Pentagon. Says it is more than bringing troops home, and is about protecting the embassy and what to do about Iraqis that helped Americans. Wants to confront the Iraqi government on taking action. Says they were both ‘pressed’ by some of their opponents in debates on the matter. Anti-pander? She hopes that 16 months is appropriate.

9:20: Obama doesn’t distinguish himself from Clinton on the matter, rather taking on McCain. Then talks about Pakistan and China, and how the war is undermining long term security. Obama says setting a date is important to send a message about how serious we are. Obama says that the approach to Iran within Iraq is a real difference between them, and that because of the difference he would offer the most clear contrast. Talks of ending the mindset that began the war.

9:23: Blitzer says it is a “clear swipe” at Clinton. Both of them disagree. Clinton cites Maxine Waters as someone that wants to get out of Iraq, and the CNN celebrocam 5000 actually finds her on cue. Clinton goes over some of the same territory. Clinton then says Iran and Syria will be drawn into divisiveness in the area and that you have to bring Iran and Syria to the table. Didn’t they just have the question on whom they will negotiate with? Clinton goes off on the ‘no permanent bases without approval of the Senate’ thing again.

9:25: Question on judgment on Iraq. Why did Clinton not vote for the Levin amendment? She said she believed in inspectors, and respects Levin, but that amendment was drafted in a way to subordinate judgment to the UN Security Council. Says she voted with Byrd on the value of a pocket constitution, err, I mean authority limited to one year. She blames Bush for waging the war and waging it poorly. Says that the issue is Republicans v. Democrats, citing McCain attacking her. Says the nominee has to have credentials and gravitas for commander in chief. (Uhm, that’s a swipe). She’s calling out Obama for being perceived as inexperienced.

9:29: Wolf jumps in with Petraeus’s comments on stability. Obama says he welcomes the progress and he wants the mission completed honorably. But says that calling it success means the bar is set below the sand. Says we are back to where we were 2 years ago, while Afghanistan is worse than it was before Iraq. Obama says consistency on the matter is an issue, and that it is beyond a problem of execution. Says it was a conceptually flawed mission from the start. Gives the standards for what he would do as C-in-C.

9:32: Wolf wants Clinton to just say the vote was a mistake. Clinton says sending inspectors was a good idea, and she believes in ‘coercive diplomacy.’ Says no one could anticipate how obsessed Bush would be. Says that she would not have done that if she was President. Talks about her visit to Afghanistan. Says you have to be as strong or better than Republicans on national security to “join issues of the future.” What does that mean? Wolf wants to know is she was naive for trusting Bush, and the crowd gets all over him for the bad question. Clinton answer by talking about how her and Obama were the same once he came to the Senate on the issue. Clinton says she was told by the White House that it was just about inspectors. Cites “we” bombing them in 1998 to get inspectors back in.

9:37: Obama cites the title to use force in Iraq, and it was potentially a vote to go to war, and the headlines reflect that. Obama says its about being right on day 1, and his judgment is relevant to how we make judgments in the future in a dangerous world. Cites the danger of terrorism and having finite resources. Says you need clear intelligence and a good rationale.

Blitz throws to a break. As for Wolf, “Charming man. I wish I had a daughter so I could forbid her to marry him…”

9:43: Back. Question for Obama on whether there is too much sex and violence out of Hollywood. Says he looks at it as a parent, and the primary responsibility if from parents, and not of censorship. Says parents need to have tools to deal with TV and the internet. Stevie Wonder! Rob Reiner! Obama wants concern on whom the more violent things are being marketed to, and you need to work with the industry on that.

9:45: Question on Bill for how he has criticized Obama. If you cannot control him now, what will it be like in the White House? Clinton says it is her campaign and should be focused on issues. Anyone care to bring up the NYT Kazakhstan article tonight? Anyone? Hillary is happy Chelsea is here, apparently.

9:47: People see them as a dream ticket, says Wolf! Jokes aside, Obama says that there is more road to travel and is premature and presumptuous to say anything. Obama says that he wants great people who can disagree with him in the White House. He says people want to know that government is on their side.  Wolf wants an answer!? He says Clinton would be on anyone’s short list.

9:50: Clinton agrees with Obama. Why is Wolf pushing for a hard answer to such a meaningless question that they have an obligation to not answer? Clinton says there will be a unified Democratic party.  Clinton segues into an awkward plug for her national townhall meeting on Monday. That was really, really, really weird.

That wraps up the debate. And one last line of our last live blog for the time being.

OR IS IT?? Wolf says there will be debates on Feb. 27 and 28 if there is no resolution by then.

As for post debate coverage on CNN, remember: “For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen. “