Live Blog Of CNN Democratic Debate In Austin, Texas (February 21, 2008)
February 21, 2008 | Permalink
7:00 PM: Greetings! The debate kicks off an hour from now, live on CNN and CNN.com. It’s being broadcast from the LBJ Presidential Library at the University of Texas. Clinton will continue her assault on Obama being all speeches and no solutions. Obama will probably respond not with attacks but by continuing to play calm and emphasize his own plans.
Campbell Brown is the moderator; somewhere, Katie Couric is sad. She couldn’t get to moderate a debate but her stand in when she was at the Today Show does.
7:06: CNN photos from the debate. The Texas marching band is going to be in the room? Great, that’s exactly what’s needed to finally get the CNN debate over that pesky shark they’ve been trying to jump.
7:20: I’m choosing the pre-debate feed with no audio over the CNN coverage of John McCain having a friend. The band is playing, and people sitting directly in front of it have a look on their face that ranks a solid 9.8 on the ironic scale.
7:27: A very old man with a long beard and a top hat just walked by me. I’m assuming that’s an omen for what is going to happen tonight. Either that, or it’s an omen that the school forgot to lock the doors at 6 pm.
7:30: A reminder of what is on the line: Someone might have their head added to this.
7:35: Johnson would be 100 years old this year. I’m not sure what to make out of that. He did teach high school debate at one point though. I hope is was not policy, because he talks way too slowly for that. (kidding!)
7:40: Texas Democrats are parading after each other on stage. I fear they’re going to run out of them before the debate begins.
7:54: Goodness, the set is awkward. It’s sort of a half S. Apparently Wolf roaming free last time was unacceptable; Brown will be seated.
7:58: Here’s pollster.com chart of polls.
8:00: And away we go. Campbell Brown looks happy to be there. Jorge Ramos from Univision and John King from CNN emerge to no applause … until they are forced to applaud.
8:02: Clinton is introduced first, and then Obama. No noticeable difference in applause levels. The pack of photographers does their job while a handler demand they back up. Meanwhile, 5 feet away they discuss what candidates need to do. That just sounds awkward. Meanwhile, Ramos talks about how no one can win without the Hispanic community. Brown points out that Clinton wants more debates.
8:05: Brown announces the candidates have sat down. Gee, thanks.
8:06: NO RULES!
8:07: Clinton gives an opening statement about working in Texas 36 years ago. She name drops Barbara Jordan and Ann Richards. Talks up starting S-CHIP, and what she did to give health care to reservists. Says that discrimination against sick people ought be unconstitutional, and that veteran care needs to be improved. Finishes by talking about her “lifetime of experience.” And apparently her campaign is now “your campaign.”
8:09: Obama again references being friends with Clinton. Talks about the economy, using a personal example. Make that multiple personal examples - this is a new wrinkle. Segues into a discussion of Iraq. Talks about how they both have offered proposals to deal with the issues, but good ideas are not the problem. Says good ideas go to Washington to die. That’s a pretty good tag line. He blames lobbyists. Obama co-ops Barbara Jordan, but quotes her to one up Clinton.
8:12: This audience is going to kill me with applause. There’s lengthy applause after every answer.
8:13: Tancredo turns off the debate when Ramos starts the debate in Spanish. Will Clinton sit with Raul Castro to get a measure of him? She “hopes so”. What does that mean? She says she is going to look for signs of openness, and will reach out once she sees progress, citing democracy and progress. When pressed, she clarifies no, until change happens. Apparently, she’s looking for change she can believe in.
8:16: Obama says that he’s willing to meet with Raul Castro, and sees an opportunity to change. Distinguishes preparation from precondition, but it sounds really, really similar. Like, really similar. He cites freeing political prisoners. Talks about opening change here with remittances and visiting.
8:18: Obama is asked about a statement about policy being a failure. He says it has been a failure, with no progress over his lifetime, and that changes should happen in steps.
8:19: Clinton says she agrees that willing to negotiate is good, but distinguishes presidential negotiations from low level negotiations.Says that the Bush standard for negotiation is too narrow, and bipartisan negotiation is better.
This applause is still killing me. It ads nothing.
8:21: Obama says that both of them are different from Bush, but that the President has to take an active role because of what Bush has done, because the air of arrogance has to be eliminated.
8:22: On to the economy. What differences are there on the economy?
8:23: Obama starts by again recalling economic problems. Talks about fairness and balance and tax breaks for companies here, and ending the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy while cutting more taxes for people making $75k or less. Talks about labor and environmental standards in trade. Segues into a green economy. Says they agree on many of these issues, as did other candidates. Says what is needed is a working majority to make these changes happen to overcome the special interests.
8:26: Clinton is asked about being ready on Day 1, and implying that Obama is not. Clinton starts by saying that she agrees with a lot of what he said, and gives a lot of the same stuff. Talks about her trade timeout and getting a trade prosecutor, and getting new safety standards in place. Talks about the foreclosure crisis, and instituting a moratorium on them. Apparently, millions will be homeless because they were “hoodwinked.” Talks green jobs. Talks about ending “Bush’s war on science” … Brown cuts her off … and Clinton continues about “innovation nation” … and Brown cuts her off again. Pausing to feel the applause was a bad idea.
ASC’s comment: “Does the path to the innovation nation require use to cut through consumption junction by any chance?”
8:30: Clinton talks about supporting comprehensive immigration, including “supporting the first one in 2004.” That was a Democrat only bill that had no chance of passing. But, it was before Obama got to the Senate. Gives the normal Dem schtick about immigration; it could have just as easily been said by Obama.
8:32: Obama generally agrees. Touts getting the bill out of the Senate but it was used as a “political football” in the House. Says that toning down the rhetoric is necessary, and hate crimes have “skyrocketed.” He then gives the same stuff as Clinton. Broad agreement here.
Since they agree, CNN naturally wants another question.
8:36: John King wants to know if you want a border fence, and want it built faster, or not at all. Clinton notes they both voted for it. Says that part of a college campus would be cut off by the border fence, and that you should not do it the dumb way. (Credit to a certain KR). Says that she would listen to people who live along the border. Brown tries to cut King off (uhm, why?), but King asks about people moving and crossing in Arizona instead of near San Diego. Clinton talks about using technology. More talk about not doing it the dumb way.
8:40: Obama says they agree. Says consulting with local communities is the key, and that listening is important. Moves on to saying justice is important, and deporting everyone is absurd, but order is important. Says everything is linked, and that is why comprehensive reform is important. Says passing the DREAM act is important for allowing children who have broken no laws on their own access to citizenship.
More immigration, and more Spanish.
8:43: By 2050, there’s going to be a lot of Spanish people here. Is there a downside for a bilingual country? (Good thing Tancredo already turned off). Clinton says that there are benefits to learning a second language, but English ties everyone together. Distinguished English not being the official language from English being the main language.
8:44: Obama gives an answer that’s mostly the same, and says every student should learn a second language. Talks about leadership in a smaller world and communicating. Talks about No Child Left Behind pushing out other learning, and foreign languages have been neglected.
Campbell Brown throws to a break, and so do I.
We’re back.
8:50: Why is the tone different in campaign appearances than it is in a debate? Clinton asked about her “speeches versus solutions” line. Starts by criticizing Bush. Says they both have a lot in common. Says they both try to let voters know how they see the world differently, and that she offers solutions. Says that there are differences between their records, citing directly the Watson interview. Says actions speak louder than words.
8:53: Obama says that actions do speak louder, and gives a records of his accomplishments. Clinton starts giving a wide smile at one point. Says Clinton has a fine record. Obama says that it’s a difference of opinion on how change comes about, citing “Let’s Get Real” and that it implies people and newspapers who support him are delusional. Says that these people understand that it’s about a problem in Washington and ending bickering and fighting special interests. Says that it’s more than policy positions, but inspiring people to get involved in government, and that without it, there will be gridlock in Washington. Lengthy applause.
8:57: Brown asks about the common elements to Deval Patrick’s speech and the Clinton argument that it is plagiarism. Obama mentions Patrick giving him the line and that the accusations are silly. Goes back to the “Silly Season” line that he last brought up in the kindergarten paper kerfuffle. Says some of his speeches are pretty good. Blatant egoism? Yeesh. That’s not going to play well everywhere. Talks about what he says in speeches, mentioning education and his position on Iraq.
9:00: Clinton is asked about it being “Silly Season.” Says that if your candidacy is going to be about speech, it should be your own words. Says it’s not change you can believe in, it’s change you can Xerox. Audience boos. Talks about watching the speeches on “the YouTube.” Says Obama “chose” not to include everyone on health care. Clinton says that even Bush agrees with her on a moratorium. Clinton says she took on universal health care against special interests in 1993 and 1994, and health insurance companies are deciding who should live and die is wrong.
9:03: Obama says he will debate the issues. Cites Clinton calling his plan universal health care earlier in the campaign. Says their plans are 95% the same, citing precisely how that is the case. Talks about the philosophical difference over mandates, and cites Robert Reich. Says that they agree on goals but differ on how to get there. He then moves into criticizing how Clinton tried to get health care passed behind closed doors instead of with people behind it.
Time for a second break.
Plants email CNN.com on why they agree with their candidate.
9:11: Clinton is asked about her statement that “one of us is ready to be commander in chief.” She says she is. She goes back to health care, and says mandates are necessary to prevent a “hidden tax” and quotes Edwards on Social Security and ads LBJ on Medicare.
9:13: Obama wants to respond briefly. Says it is a mandate on individuals to purchase, and talks about extensive problems in Massachusetts with mandates. Says that a stiff penalty is needed to incentivize everyone to buy health care.
9:14: Clinton now jumps in, and talks about mandates for children. She again talks about Medicare and Social Security.
9:15: Obama says that mothers can get health care for children, and it is available and affordable right now. Says that penalties for gaming the system are appropriate, but that he does not want to leave anyone out.
9:16: What about being ready as commander in chief? She talks about what she did as first lady, and serving on the Armed Service Community, and leading on Homeland Security. Mentions Kosovo, Serbia, Pakistan, and Cuba testing Presidential Leadership.
9:18: Obama says he would not be running if he did not think he was ready, and that his first job is to keep America safe. Says that families are burdened by tours, and using correct judgment. Cites Clinton’s judgments on Iraq. Cites Pakistan and other decisions.
9:21: John King asks about supporting the surge, and Clinton’s comments about a willing suspension of disbelief. Clinton says the rationale of the surge was to give the Iraqi government space to make key decisions, and that no one doubts sending more troops would be a better idea. Says the purpose of the surge has not been fulfilled. Says that withdrawing slowly would force the Iraqi government to stand up.
9:25: Obama says that it is indisputable that violence is down and cites a local brigade. Says a tactical victory is imposed upon a strategic blunder, and that having a debate on the wisdom of that decision is preferable to a debate about tactics of the decision. Says that America has been diverted from paying attention from Latin America because of Iraq, and talks about how Hugo Chavez and Iran have benefited. Talks about improving treatments for veterans, and that spending on the Iraq war prevents general improvements. Criticizes McCain on the economy.
Break time. CNN’s focus group gives Clinton’s Xerox remark low marks.
9:31: The debate goes on! Anderson Cooper is ready with the “Best Political Team on Television.” Obama is asked about not providing where his earmarks went. He points out he did. We linked to it. Obama talks about how he opened up the process, and that some earmarks are worthy projects.
9:34: Clinton is asked about pork barrel spending. Says McCain supported the Iraq war and Bush tax cuts (well, he does now, but don’t look for McCain to clarify that). Says that borrowing money from the Chinese is bad, and some of the Bush tax cuts need to be repealed. Criticizes Bush on spending. It seems that Clinton is criticizing Bush more, and Obama McCain, but that is just a random observation.
9:36: Superdelegates. Quoting Pelosi who said it would be a problem if the people are overruled. Clinton says she is not worried, and these are the rules. Obama says that the primaries and caucuses count and should determine the next nominee. Says that the people want government that listens to them. I’d like to know what he means exactly by politicians scoring points. For whom, exactly?
9:39: Last question, finally. What was a moment that tested each the most? Obama says he would not point to a single moment, but his entire life. Says learning to take responsibility for his own actions and how he could bring people together. Cites his cumulative experience as a reason he is qualified to provide a better government. Clinton says everyone knows she’s lived through crises. Says she does not know how she keeps going, but challenges of everyday Americans are far more difficult. Talks about speaking at the opening of a facility for injured troops in San Antonio, and how the problems they deal with are so serious, and she has vowed to improve people’s lives from a young age. Says she and Obama will be fine, and she hopes she can say the same thing about the American people.
And that’s about it.
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"Your campaign," huh? Remember, folks, she’s LISTENING to us. Yes we will!
God these debates are so boring. I know they can’t really say anything, but damn.
why can’t either of them just talk to whoever leads cuba ? those right-wing cubans in miami won’t vote democratic anyway !
is anyone else trying to watch via cnn.com? i can get great video and no audio.
Smart people can contribute smart analysis on the debate to CNN and achieve personal stardom:
http://www.cnn.com/exchange/ireports/topics/forms/2007/09/political.team.html
Joe, it’s working for me.
I like Obama, but Clinton is doing pretty well.
Still think these things suck, however.
They particularly suck if you read obsessively since no one really says anything new. (I personally think that in ALL of the debates I’ve watched, Hillary sounds like she’s reciting lines. Who cares if the lines are agreeable if I can’t tell what she truly cares about? Oh yeah, that’s right…The Children. [Whitney Houston song in the background])
Question: Why does HRC get to go first on all these questions so far?
Why don’t the candidates give their responses to the North American Super Highway instead of canned answers to repeat questions from other debates. They talk around the issues. They haven’t given responses of WHAT ACTIONS THEY WILL PUSH THAT WILL FIX THE PROBLEMS . THEY LEAVE ANSWERS TO BE ANSWERED BY OTHER PARTIES AT ANOTHER TIME.
To gwa’yo,
I think Barrack won the coin toss and asked to go second.
I disagree with Obama. America is ready for someone who is strong and experienced enough to lead us for real changes, not just rhetorical changes. His ‘hems’ and ‘haws’ are distracting…..
She is clearly the more diplomatic of the two. I would be honored to have her representing my country…not the mumbling, fumbling idiot next to her.
i don’t think it was held at the LBJ Library. it was the rec sports center .
Her speech at the end! Did She look at those soldier’s and recognise that she is one of those responsible for their torn limbs and blasted off faces…. phuleeezee.
I don’t believe her. She is a sophist.
He said, let’s work together for the country… she said that’s what she wants but she got down in the mud trying to smear him and he ACTED upon his WORDS and took the high ground…FOR UNITY.
YES HE CAN. YES WE CAN!
She is clearly the more pandering, line-parroting, fake of the two. She’s exactly right about words being nothing without actions. She just says what sounds good and then does whatever the hell she wants. I thought that part at the end was so literally incredible–I could hear Penn and Wolfson and her going over how to end the thing. She sounded good, but she didn’t answer the question, really. But if you want to analyze the implications, they were bad news. 1) Yeah, soldiers in Iraq definitely have it worse than her. Because of a war she helped authorize yet blames Bush wholly for. 2) Yes, she has lived through a lot of crises. And a lot of them were the result of her own bad judgment and sketchy actions. How does that make here ready for a crisis as president? None of her reactions to those crises were particularly laudable. If she said that they taught her how to take responsibility for her choices and how the choices of someone in power affects so many people, then okay, that’s a relevant and good answer. But no. She goes into that voice-coached fuzzy-inflection mode…Spare us, spare us!
Obama made a comment about not attacking each other and suggested Clinton was attacking him. Then he continued by making numerous remarks about her that were merely veiled insults (like congratulating her on getting on the health care agenda early and fighting but doing it wrong and therefore failing. He presents no evidence for this.)
If the U.S. is going to make it through a growing economic and international mess, perhaps a leader with more integrity than Obama is needed. Anyone who says ‘disagree with me and I will call it an insult but when I disagree with you, I will call it a substantive policy issue’ is dishonest and playing childish games. He can be calm and say it nicely but it is simply dishonest at best and manipulative at worst.
BTW: this is the same dishonesty that he used with the Florida delegates vs the super-delegates. The super-delegates should follow the will of the people (apparently that involves supporting him) but the Florida voters (all of them) should be ignored (because they didn’t vote for him.) He cites the ‘rules’ that he wants to follow in terms of Florida but wants to bypass the ‘rules’ that the delegates can choose for themselves without Obama telling them what to do.
A Presidential candidate who asks that voters be ignored is again, dishonest and manipulative.
So, let’s see, what question can we ask that will give Hillary a chance to come close to tears again? I know - let’s remind people about Bill’s being impeached for lying about having sex in the White House! What’s the word - I know - CRISIS! The whole WORLD felt her pain over that event. Obama can never top that!
So now the pundits say that her last word was Hillary’s best moment in the debate. Did you come up with that one yourself, Campbell? What baloney!
Perhaps Hillary needs to understand the importance of following the “rules.” She AGREED to exclude Michigan and Florida delegates because they violated the DNC rules. If Hillary agreed and then goes back on her word, how is she believable? She is just a flip-flopper.
It makes me a bit nervous to see how many times Obama said, “uhh, blah blah blah, uhh uhh, umm.” Not only that, everyone likes him because he has been the young underdog. I don’t want a young underdog to run the country, I want someone who knows what they’re doing.
Check this out:
(from http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2008/02/hookem_dems.cfm)
10:05 : Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson takes Hillary’s debate-closing love-fest with Mr Obama and runs with it in a suspiciously prompt e-mail sent to reporters:
“What we saw in the final moments in that debate is why Hillary Clinton is the next President of the United States. Her strength, her life experience, her compassion. She’s tested and ready. It was the moment she retook the reins of this race and showed women and men why she is the best choice.”
if either one of these hyp0crites becomes president it is going to come and bite all their supporters in the a.. just like it is biting the clintons now. there will be change and a lot of you are not going like the changes when they hit you in the face.
Why are we bothered with what happened during Bill’s presidency? BILL IS NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. People have to start realizing this and for god sakes, who cares what happens in the bedroom as long as you do a good job of running the country(you know that whole like lowest unemployment rate and surplus thing that happened… dunno just thought that was a good thing.) Oh yeah, JFK and Marilyn Monroe hello? who cares?
Yeah the changes that will make all democrats so angry… tax cuts for middle class, better education and pay for our teachers, getting out of Iraq, all that bad stuff could make me real angry…
Future President Obama, You are a man of much intellect, strength, integrity, and honor. You voted in a very intense time in our country with all of our biases to oppose the Iraq war despite of what people would say or imply due to your history. You are someone I pray will lead our country in the right direction which we have not been in in more than 15 years. Bush Sr. labeled the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) as a terrorist organization. Despite Serbia’s history in supporting the US in 2 world wars, the Clinton administration with the bias of Albright (who was married & divorced to a Serbian man and holds great bias against the Serbs) chose to support all parties except the Serbs and they have suffered so greatly as a result. These are a proud people just like us here who are trying to secure their borders. I beg of you to look at the history of Serbia and Yugoslavia - Kosovo a part of that. They same situation could happen in parts of Texas, California, Arizona, etc if borders were left open for years. Los Angeles could be 90% hispanic - would we allow an indepent Los Angeles? Please show the world we repect nations and Sovereignty.
come to texas, see a few dumb mexicans, say holla, eat a taco, drink a big red and they will vote for you, just like, rip, hbg use to do, a few beers and some tamales and he was back in office. boy, are we gullible and easy. we can’t think for ourselves because they tell us they are going to give us some thing for free. i work hard, i pay my way, including health care for my family and i don’t kill born or unborn human beings. if we can’t afford it, we don’t buy it.
i am part of the middle class, and i will see a tax increase to pay for all the entitlements, teacher pay and better education will go by the way side, and will sneak out of iraq with our tails between our legs and more people in iraqi dead. i guess iraq people don’t matter to selfish people.
I’m not sure how many people that you know that have died in Iraq, but I can’t count them on just one hand… Iraqi people are going to die whether we are there or not. This fight has been going on for thousands of years and we think that going in there with our snotty attitudes and praises of democracy are going to fix it. They are a tribal society that can’t be fixed by anyone but itself. As far as the tax increases go, look in an economics book, we need a slight tax increase to be able to see any economic growth and oh, btw to pay for a war that you believe in. I’m sorry, but I’m sick of funerals for friends that were too young to know what they were getting themselves into.
ahhhhh siiiiiiii!
The debates suck. Clinton and Obama suck, each other maybe, in the WH blue room.
have you served your country? i guess you have, you read a book. you know so much about war. i have been there and will go back to help people that appreciate it, not your kind that all you care about is your own a.. that i may be protecting some day so that you can keep reading.
actually yes, I’ve already done 2 tours in Iraq thank you. So maybe before you go ahead and assume that I am on of those ungrateful people that would be willing to spit on a veteran like some of those that did during Vietnam, assume that even if I wasn’t there, I would support the troops even if I don’t support the action.
BTW, maybe if you had read a book to your friends and explained the meaning of war, they would not have raised their hand to join. No one forced them except maybe it was for selfish reasons like yours.
Thank you for your service. I hope you get to go again, maybe Iran. Just like I said, no one forced you. Get over it. Things happen, just like there will always be selfish, poor and stupid people.
not sure who that was in response to, but all of my friends volunteered at a young age to go to school, yes knowing the implications of going to war. However, can you really say that you believe in this war? I don’t understand how it is selfish to go into the service even if yes it is selfish to get discounts for school, but it is never selfish to serve your country… That’s still not to say that I support the war though, it is people that don’t support the troops that give people that don’t support the war a bad name. For some reason they seem to be associated. We are not there fighting for our country though, that is the big difference. We are pulling a repeat of 40 years ago.
if i go again, i hope you are not there. i don’t want to be looking over my back too. go to hawai. btw, i have been there twice also.
I’m not trying to get personal buddy, I’m talking about the issues at hand. So I suppose we will just agree to disagree
i guess we should not have gone to england to save the english, to france to save the french, to germany to save the jews. i was right, you are selfish, it does not matter how you justify it.
Well, Hillary voted for the war.
…..and I seem to recall that her daughter, Chelsea, rather than signing up and fighting there, was in Hawaii campaigning for her mother.
People like the Clintons, vote for the wars (that their lobbies want)….but alway expect other parents’ children to fight them.
I VOTE OBAMA !
if you don’t believe in what you are doing, get out.
you have to have commitment.
you are right, we will just disagree. no hard feelings.
Obama sucks. Vote for the sucker because you suck also and then we will have a bunch of suckers running around.
I think someone needs to draw the line. When Obama supporters start suggesting that the Clinton’s send their completely apolitical daughter to a warzone because they voted "for" a war, i think we’re past the point of change and hope and back into the same place that Obama pretends to be free from. Its cute how Obama is turning the unity people into strict partisans.
Oh well. and the reason Clinton goes first with all the questions is so that Obama can repeat what she says and then add hope and dreams to it. It works pretty damn well too.
I don’t think any candidate is responsible for idiotic statements of "supporters." Clearly no reasonable person endorses sending Chelsea to a warzone, that’s a straw man.
And I thought the answers were pretty substantial; Clinton cited her experience in addition to the substance, Obama more forward looking in general. But that was only a rule of thumb.
The whole immigration part, for instance, was just tons of agreement, with neither really separating from the other. I don’t think we need to say either candidate won exchanges like that; it was more the Democratic party getting their immigration position 30 minutes of free publicity.
So yes, suggesting that Chelsea has to go to Iraq is a really stupid thing to suggest, just to clarify.
Can we have a debate on the merits of genuine issues of disagreement instead of saying silly crap like that? Thanks.
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How does that make here ready for a occasion as president? None of her responses to those crises were in particular laudable. If she said that they taught her how to take obligation for her choices and how the choices of someone in power affects so many people, then okay, that’s relevant and good answer.
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Sujith
Apartments in Longview, Texas
Obama and Biden that is where I put my faith besides God!