The Real Problem With ABC’s Debate

There’s a back and forth going on regarding the last debate on ABC News. I think both sides are partially right and both are partially wrong. The accusatory tones going back and forth are not helping, either.

The complainers main argument seems to be that actual substance took a backseat. The supporters note that these kinds of issues are important to voters too. Both of those points have merit, but don’t implicate the ideas of people they are arguing against.

In debate, these types of arguments are commonly referred to as ships passing in the night. While one or both have legitimate points, neither address the points of the other.

In this instance, the bickering and biases of both sides prevent reasonable type solutions.

To wit: Those types of non-issues are important for voters. That’s why it didn’t matter what Al Sharpton’s health care policy was 4 years ago. Or what Gary Bauer’s position on the future of NATO was 8 years ago. Or what virtually any of Ralph Nader’s positions ever are. There’s a certain sense of respect that Americans require of the President (this is different from the commander in chief argument). Angelo and I have been discussing it, and he mentioned that it may be a result of the President being both the head of state and head of government. The office is beyond issues. That’s why you can read the 2000 election as to some extent a rejection of the Bill Clinton’s time in office. (While Gore won the popular vote, it was not by the margin one would have expected if you disregard impeachment, Monica, etc. Liberals hate to admit this.)

On the other hand, there’s virtually no reason for both candidates to weigh in on these issues. It does not matter what Sen. Clinton thinks of Wright or the comments in San Francisco, and it does not matter what Sen. Obama thinks of the Bosnia story. These questions need to be asked one on one in a live format. The proper place would be somewhere like Meet the Press, but Russert has recently gone off the deep end looking for gotcha questions instead of just exploring these controversial issues.

Point being, that when people complain about a debate being a waste, it’s not just because these issues came up necessarilly. The questions deserved answers. But that’s not what a debate is for. Listen to the NPR debate or the Des Moines Register Debate, or even most of the last ABC Debate. When a debate turns into a discussion of the issues, it raises up all the candidates and the country as a whole.

There’s been over discussion of some issues in this campaign (health care mandates, for one) and under discussion of a whole lot of crucial other ones. (Republicans have barely talked about health care while Democrats could have held a symposium on it. Democrats have barely gotten into climate change except to all try to outdo each other in praise for Al Gore.)

Some might say: What if candidates duck appearances to avoid that type of questioning? Then ask them about that; the opposition candidate surely can comment on a candidate refusing to engage in a discussion like that. But the throws to Obama and Clinton to comment on the missteps of the other are just very awkward and unnecessary.

Now that primary debates are apparently finished, it’s appropriate to look back and realize what could have been and what could be. Let’s have more discourse next time while leaving the other questions for a better forum. The chance of that happening? Well, I’m not holding my breath.

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Time Allotments For ABC News Clinton-Obama Debate In Pennsylvania

Below are the time allotments for tonight’s ABC News Democratic debate in Pennsylvania between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama:

This allotment represents total speaking time for each candidate, excluding their opening remarks.

Related at 2008Central.net:

• Live Blog Of ABC News Clinton-Obama “Debate” In Pennsylvania (04/16/08)

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Live Blog Of ABC News Clinton-Obama “Debate” In Pennsylvania

Tonight, ABC News will be hosting a debate in Pennsylvania between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. We’ll be liveblogging the debate, as usual, so stay tuned…

8:00: Introductory statements. Obama talks about hope, Clinton talks about the founding fathers and concern. Also that government is not standing up for people across America; almost that they’re bitter or something. Also plugs detailed plans on her website.

And … a commercial break already? Umm, ok.

8:08: Gibson talks about each of them appealing to different constituencies. Asks about the Cuomo plan to take the other as the Vice President and the other should agree. Obama demurs first, and says that the party will come together by the convention. Gibson is not happy with that answer, and presses Clinton, who says that she will do everything possible to make sure one of them is elected. What a silly question. I’m not sure if it’s good or bad that they got the stupid question out of the way early.

8:12: Obama is asked about the bitter/cling comments. Obama says it’s not the first time or last he “mangled up what he meant.” He’s talking in a really apologetic tone. Says promises have been broken, and wedge issues take precedence over real issues that can be fixed. Doesn’t really talk about the anti-trade or immigrant comments.

8:15: Clinton talks about her grandfather from Pennsylvania. Says she does not agree that people cling to religion when Washington is ignoring them, and says the same about guns. But she agrees that people are frustrated with the government. Talks about understanding and listening to one another. Read more

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PREVIEW: ABC News Democratic Debate In Pennsylvania Between Hillary Clinton And Barack Obama

Tonight, ABC News will be hosting a debate in Pennsylvania between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.  The debate will air live at 8PM EST (7PM CST) on ABC and will be moderated by Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos.  If you’re looking to watch the debate online, you can find a live stream here.

If you’re a total junkie, some nice backgrounders…

 

• The Note analyzes the stakes
• Trailhead on “how Hillary can win“
• Time’s preview
• Check out Divided We Stand, United We Fail’s liveblog of the livebloggers (I strongly recommend checking this out).

 

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Morning Briefing (March 14, 2008)

These articles will get your day started…

1. The Rev. Wright controversy continues to make big news today. I have yet to find a really good article covering all dimensions of the issue, so I’ll probably just write one myself later today in consultation with JW. In the meantime, you can watch the video of his remarks here. (If you know of a really good article covering the issue, please notify us). While on the race issue, Kevin Drum offers some meaningful commentary on the issue and the coverage.
2. Matt Bai compares and contrasts (a phrase I haven’t used since 5th grade) the the chief strategists for the Obama and Clinton campaigns - David Axelrod and Mark Penn, respectively. For those that don’t know much about these guys, it’s worth a read since it’ll help illumine some of the meta issues of the campaign.
3. As many focus on the internecine struggle in the Democratic party, presumptive Republican nominee John McCain argues that

Read more

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Live Blog Of MSNBC Democratic Debate In Cleveland, Ohio (February 26, 2008)

8:19: Underlying themes aplenty. Will Hillary Clinton continue her harsh attacks from the weekend on Barack Obama? Will Obama maintain his cool presence he’s worked hard to maintain in these debates? Will Tim Russert admit he attended law school at Cleveland State on national television? Will Clinton fight back against MSNBC, or have those battles passed? Will Obama keep up his attacks on Clinton? Will Brian Williams ask more or fewer than 4 pointless questions?

We have the answers for you, here, tonight. Live!

8:40: And, we’re up. As you can see, the site has a new layout. It’ll take a few days for us to get everything in order, but if you notice a problem, please let us know. Read more

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Live Blog Of CNN Democratic Debate In Austin, Texas (February 21, 2008)

7:00 PM: Greetings! The debate kicks off an hour from now, live on CNN and CNN.com. It’s being broadcast from the LBJ Presidential Library at the University of Texas. Clinton will continue her assault on Obama being all speeches and no solutions. Obama will probably respond not with attacks but by continuing to play calm and emphasize his own plans.

Campbell Brown is the moderator; somewhere, Katie Couric is sad. She couldn’t get to moderate a debate but her stand in when she was at the Today Show does.

7:06: CNN photos from the debate. The Texas marching band is going to be in the room? Great, that’s exactly what’s needed to finally get the CNN debate over that pesky shark they’ve been trying to jump.

7:20: I’m choosing the pre-debate feed with no audio over the CNN coverage of John McCain having a friend. The band is playing, and people sitting directly in front of it have a look on their face that ranks a solid 9.8 on the ironic scale.

7:27: A very old man with a long beard and a top hat just walked by me. I’m assuming that’s an omen for what is going to happen tonight. Either that, or it’s an omen that the school forgot to lock the doors at 6 pm.

7:30: A reminder of what is on the line: Someone might have their head added to this.

7:35: Johnson would be 100 years old this year. I’m not sure what to make out of that. He did teach high school debate at one point though. I hope is was not policy, because he talks way too slowly for that. (kidding!)

7:40: Texas Democrats are parading after each other on stage. I fear they’re going to run out of them before the debate begins.

7:54: Goodness, the set is awkward. It’s sort of a half S. Apparently Wolf roaming free last time was unacceptable; Brown will be seated.

7:58: Here’s pollster.com chart of polls.

8:00: And away we go. Campbell Brown looks happy to be there. Jorge Ramos from Univision and John King from CNN emerge to no applause … until they are forced to applaud.

8:02: Clinton is introduced first, and then Obama. No noticeable difference in applause levels. The pack of photographers does their job while a handler demand they back up. Meanwhile, 5 feet away they discuss what candidates need to do. That just sounds awkward. Meanwhile, Ramos talks about how no one can win without the Hispanic community. Brown points out that Clinton wants more debates.

8:05: Brown announces the candidates have sat down. Gee, thanks.

8:06: NO RULES!

8:07: Clinton gives an opening statement about working in Texas 36 years ago. She name drops Barbara Jordan and Ann Richards. Talks up starting S-CHIP, and what she did to give health care to reservists. Says that discrimination against sick people ought be unconstitutional, and that veteran care needs to be improved. Finishes by talking about her “lifetime of experience.” And apparently her campaign is now “your campaign.”

8:09: Obama again references being friends with Clinton. Talks about the economy, using a personal example. Make that multiple personal examples - this is a new wrinkle. Segues into a discussion of Iraq. Talks about how they both have offered proposals to deal with the issues, but good ideas are not the problem. Says good ideas go to Washington to die. That’s a pretty good tag line. He blames lobbyists. Obama co-ops Barbara Jordan, but quotes her to one up Clinton.

8:12: This audience is going to kill me with applause. There’s lengthy applause after every answer.
8:13: Tancredo turns off the debate when Ramos starts the debate in Spanish. Will Clinton sit with Raul Castro to get a measure of him? She “hopes so”. What does that mean? She says she is going to look for signs of openness, and will reach out once she sees progress, citing democracy and progress. When pressed, she clarifies no, until change happens. Apparently, she’s looking for change she can believe in.

8:16: Obama says that he’s willing to meet with Raul Castro, and sees an opportunity to change. Distinguishes preparation from precondition, but it sounds really, really similar. Like, really similar. He cites freeing political prisoners. Talks about opening change here with remittances and visiting.

8:18: Obama is asked about a statement about policy being a failure. He says it has been a failure, with no progress over his lifetime, and that changes should happen in steps.

8:19: Clinton says she agrees that willing to negotiate is good, but distinguishes presidential negotiations from low level negotiations.Says that the Bush standard for negotiation is too narrow, and bipartisan negotiation is better.

This applause is still killing me. It ads nothing.

8:21: Obama says that both of them are different from Bush, but that the President has to take an active role because of what Bush has done, because the air of arrogance has to be eliminated.

8:22: On to the economy. What differences are there on the economy?

8:23: Obama starts by again recalling economic problems. Talks about fairness and balance and tax breaks for companies here, and ending the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy while cutting more taxes for people making $75k or less. Talks about labor and environmental standards in trade. Segues into a green economy. Says they agree on many of these issues, as did other candidates. Says what is needed is a working majority to make these changes happen to overcome the special interests.

8:26: Clinton is asked about being ready on Day 1, and implying that Obama is not. Clinton starts by saying that she agrees with a lot of what he said, and gives a lot of the same stuff. Talks about her trade timeout and getting a trade prosecutor, and getting new safety standards in place. Talks about the foreclosure crisis, and instituting a moratorium on them. Apparently, millions will be homeless because they were “hoodwinked.” Talks green jobs. Talks about ending “Bush’s war on science” … Brown cuts her off … and Clinton continues about “innovation nation” … and Brown cuts her off again. Pausing to feel the applause was a bad idea.

ASC’s comment: “Does the path to the innovation nation require use to cut through consumption junction by any chance?”

8:30: Clinton talks about supporting comprehensive immigration, including “supporting the first one in 2004.” That was a Democrat only bill that had no chance of passing. But, it was before Obama got to the Senate. Gives the normal Dem schtick about immigration; it could have just as easily been said by Obama.

8:32: Obama generally agrees. Touts getting the bill out of the Senate but it was used as a “political football” in the House. Says that toning down the rhetoric is necessary, and hate crimes have “skyrocketed.” He then gives the same stuff as Clinton. Broad agreement here.

Since they agree, CNN naturally wants another question.

8:36: John King wants to know if you want a border fence, and want it built faster, or not at all. Clinton notes they both voted for it. Says that part of a college campus would be cut off by the border fence, and that you should not do it the dumb way. (Credit to a certain KR). Says that she would listen to people who live along the border. Brown tries to cut King off (uhm, why?), but King asks about people moving and crossing in Arizona instead of near San Diego. Clinton talks about using technology. More talk about not doing it the dumb way.

8:40: Obama says they agree. Says consulting with local communities is the key, and that listening is important. Moves on to saying justice is important, and deporting everyone is absurd, but order is important. Says everything is linked, and that is why comprehensive reform is important. Says passing the DREAM act is important for allowing children who have broken no laws on their own access to citizenship.

More immigration, and more Spanish.

8:43: By 2050, there’s going to be a lot of Spanish people here. Is there a downside for a bilingual country? (Good thing Tancredo already turned off). Clinton says that there are benefits to learning a second language, but English ties everyone together. Distinguished English not being the official language from English being the main language.

8:44: Obama gives an answer that’s mostly the same, and says every student should learn a second language. Talks about leadership in a smaller world and communicating. Talks about No Child Left Behind pushing out other learning, and foreign languages have been neglected.

Campbell Brown throws to a break, and so do I.

We’re back.

8:50: Why is the tone different in campaign appearances than it is in a debate? Clinton asked about her “speeches versus solutions” line. Starts by criticizing Bush. Says they both have a lot in common. Says they both try to let voters know how they see the world differently, and that she offers solutions. Says that there are differences between their records, citing directly the Watson interview. Says actions speak louder than words.

8:53: Obama says that actions do speak louder, and gives a records of his accomplishments. Clinton starts giving a wide smile at one point. Says Clinton has a fine record. Obama says that it’s a difference of opinion on how change comes about, citing “Let’s Get Real” and that it implies people and newspapers who support him are delusional. Says that these people understand that it’s about a problem in Washington and ending bickering and fighting special interests. Says that it’s more than policy positions, but inspiring people to get involved in government, and that without it, there will be gridlock in Washington. Lengthy applause.

8:57: Brown asks about the common elements to Deval Patrick’s speech and the Clinton argument that it is plagiarism. Obama mentions Patrick giving him the line and that the accusations are silly. Goes back to the “Silly Season” line that he last brought up in the kindergarten paper kerfuffle. Says some of his speeches are pretty good. Blatant egoism? Yeesh. That’s not going to play well everywhere. Talks about what he says in speeches, mentioning education and his position on Iraq.

9:00: Clinton is asked about it being “Silly Season.” Says that if your candidacy is going to be about speech, it should be your own words. Says it’s not change you can believe in, it’s change you can Xerox. Audience boos. Talks about watching the speeches on “the YouTube.” Says Obama “chose” not to include everyone on health care. Clinton says that even Bush agrees with her on a moratorium. Clinton says she took on universal health care against special interests in 1993 and 1994, and health insurance companies are deciding who should live and die is wrong.

9:03: Obama says he will debate the issues. Cites Clinton calling his plan universal health care earlier in the campaign. Says their plans are 95% the same, citing precisely how that is the case. Talks about the philosophical difference over mandates, and cites Robert Reich. Says that they agree on goals but differ on how to get there. He then moves into criticizing how Clinton tried to get health care passed behind closed doors instead of with people behind it.

Time for a second break.

Plants email CNN.com on why they agree with their candidate.

9:11: Clinton is asked about her statement that “one of us is ready to be commander in chief.” She says she is. She goes back to health care, and says mandates are necessary to prevent a “hidden tax” and quotes Edwards on Social Security and ads LBJ on Medicare.

9:13: Obama wants to respond briefly. Says it is a mandate on individuals to purchase, and talks about extensive problems in Massachusetts with mandates. Says that a stiff penalty is needed to incentivize everyone to buy health care.

9:14: Clinton now jumps in, and talks about mandates for children. She again talks about Medicare and Social Security.

9:15: Obama says that mothers can get health care for children, and it is available and affordable right now. Says that penalties for gaming the system are appropriate, but that he does not want to leave anyone out.

9:16: What about being ready as commander in chief? She talks about what she did as first lady, and serving on the Armed Service Community, and leading on Homeland Security. Mentions Kosovo, Serbia, Pakistan, and Cuba testing Presidential Leadership.

9:18: Obama says he would not be running if he did not think he was ready, and that his first job is to keep America safe. Says that families are burdened by tours, and using correct judgment. Cites Clinton’s judgments on Iraq. Cites Pakistan and other decisions.

9:21: John King asks about supporting the surge, and Clinton’s comments about a willing suspension of disbelief. Clinton says the rationale of the surge was to give the Iraqi government space to make key decisions, and that no one doubts sending more troops would be a better idea. Says the purpose of the surge has not been fulfilled. Says that withdrawing slowly would force the Iraqi government to stand up.

9:25: Obama says that it is indisputable that violence is down and cites a local brigade. Says a tactical victory is imposed upon a strategic blunder, and that having a debate on the wisdom of that decision is preferable to a debate about tactics of the decision. Says that America has been diverted from paying attention from Latin America because of Iraq, and talks about how Hugo Chavez and Iran have benefited. Talks about improving treatments for veterans, and that spending on the Iraq war prevents general improvements. Criticizes McCain on the economy.

Break time. CNN’s focus group gives Clinton’s Xerox remark low marks.

9:31: The debate goes on! Anderson Cooper is ready with the “Best Political Team on Television.” Obama is asked about not providing where his earmarks went. He points out he did. We linked to it. Obama talks about how he opened up the process, and that some earmarks are worthy projects.

9:34: Clinton is asked about pork barrel spending. Says McCain supported the Iraq war and Bush tax cuts (well, he does now, but don’t look for McCain to clarify that). Says that borrowing money from the Chinese is bad, and some of the Bush tax cuts need to be repealed. Criticizes Bush on spending. It seems that Clinton is criticizing Bush more, and Obama McCain, but that is just a random observation.

9:36: Superdelegates. Quoting Pelosi who said it would be a problem if the people are overruled. Clinton says she is not worried, and these are the rules. Obama says that the primaries and caucuses count and should determine the next nominee. Says that the people want government that listens to them. I’d like to know what he means exactly by politicians scoring points. For whom, exactly?

9:39: Last question, finally. What was a moment that tested each the most? Obama says he would not point to a single moment, but his entire life. Says learning to take responsibility for his own actions and how he could bring people together. Cites his cumulative experience as a reason he is qualified to provide a better government. Clinton says everyone knows she’s lived through crises. Says she does not know how she keeps going, but challenges of everyday Americans are far more difficult. Talks about speaking at the opening of a facility for injured troops in San Antonio, and how the problems they deal with are so serious, and she has vowed to improve people’s lives from a young age. Says she and Obama will be fine, and she hopes she can say the same thing about the American people.

And that’s about it.

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Live Blog of the CNN / LA Times / Politico Clinton - Obama Debate In Hollywood, California (January 31, 2007)

6:36: Tonight, it’s not about hope, it’s about hype.

The final scheduled debate of primary season is here. Finally. After 19 Republican debates and what will be tonight be the 21 debates for Democrats, it will finally be over. Aside from any debates that get scheduled on Meet the Press or some other show (please, no more Tim Russert.) We’re glad you stuck with us through all of this.

Of course, this will be the first of any of these debates to include only two people, making it either exceptionally theatrical or exceptionally meaningful. Frankly, it’s too soon to tell.

And with this much on the line, you want as much information as possible. That’s why CNN was kind enough to give us the best information they had available: a time lapsed video of the set being constructed. (We’re going to be in for a LONG night, folks).

Clinton! Obama! Blitzer! NO RULES!

Tonight, 8 ET. Live online on the CNN and LA Times webpages.

6:56: The Washington Post’s “Fact Checker” has the headline: “Democratic Debate, Jan. 30, 2008.” You cannot make this stuff up. It’s even in the URL!

7:31: Let me be quick on goals for tonight. Obama needs to make sure he maintains likability, especially after the whole (stupid) snub thing from the State of the Union. Clinton needs to distinguish herself from Obama as much as she can while maintaining the look of a frontrunner. And Blitzer needs to somehow regain his dignity.

Meanwhile, Bill Schneider on CNN invokes Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure in comparison to this debate. You know, the movie where Keanu Reeves was the good actor.

7:51: Leo Dicaprio, Steven Spielberg, Rob Reiner, and more are apparently in the house.

7:54: CNN notes that there’s signs against the war and signs for Ron Paul. Has such a large movement ever been worse than the Paul people at convincing people to even listen to their position? Even the 9/11 Truthers get more people to take them seriously.

7:56: CNN’s British comparison notes that it’s “almost a certainty” that the Democrats will nominate a woman or a black President. At an economic class, the top issue is apparently … the economy. Thanks, CNN!

7:58: Melissa Long points out how expensive the Kodak Theater was to build, and then runs the stupid time lapse video I referenced above. She then stresses that she walked by Brandy earlier. Uhm, wow.

8:00: Blitzer says we’re in the midst of glamour. Thanks, Wolf.

8:02: It’s the first time a woman and an African-American will be vying for the Democratic nomination, says Wolf. Really? Are you sure? Wolf moves on to introducing the press pool. Then, Clinton and Obama come out together, all smiles.

8:03: Three symbolic white folks come out to remind people others consider them important.

8:04: Blitzer demands that the press pool leave, and he says this “will be a debate in a traditional sense.” Oh yeah? Who’s on government and who is on opposition? Oh wait, they don’t mean that.

8:05: NO RULES! Opening statements.

8:06: Obama starts by thanking John Edwards. PANDER ALERT! Then says that either he or Hillary will be the next President, and that they are and will be friends. (FIX THE SNUB!). The segues into a few sentences from his stump speech. Says its not about demographics, but looking backwards or the future. Says it’s more than change from George Bush.

8:08: Clinton says its about 1/20/09, and it will be Barack or her, and who can deal with the problems sitting on the desk that date. Cites Iraq, Afghanistan, the economy, health insurance, energy, global warming, and other problems that will emerge. Goes over her Day 1 schtick, before citing the Edwardses (Obama cited Elizabeth too). Cites those living in poverty. Says that a problem solver who rolls up their sleeves is important.

8:11: First question is what Clinton considers the most important policy difference? She says he’s not a Republican at first. Well, thanks. Goes over health care, saying hers is like Edwards’. PANDER ALERT. She wants a moratorium on foreclosures for 90 days and to freeze interest rates for 5 years. She wants to be realistic and optimistic on foreign affairs. She does not want the prestige of the Presidency on the line to meet with dictators in the first year. She tries to link Republicans with the status quo and both of them with change.

8:14: Obama says those are generally differences. Cites health care being 95% the same, citing how both would help people like his mother. Says the problem is reducing costs of health care and making it affordable. Says Clinton would force people to buy it, and it requires an enforcement mechanism (applause). He says that they agree to keep people in their home. Says that he does not want an interest rates freeze as that would cause other rates to go way up. Blames it on Bush and a lack of oversight, and links it lobbyists, and says that it’s a real difference on influence. Cites Edwards (JE PANDER ALERT). Cites differing judgment on Iraq looking forward to show how they would differ. Cites the NIE on Iran.

Great start, mainly with no Wolf.

8:19: Question on Obama’s plan being voluntary. Why would his plan be superior if 15 million are left out. Obama says anyone who wants it can get it. Obama says that means there are 15 million who do not want it, and he disputes that. Mandatory for children, and people up to 25 will be covered under parents. Obama cites Massachusetts plan that has problems with mandates. Says what do you do with people who cannot afford it, citing garnishing wages.

8:21: Wolf says it’s a difference. Gee, thanks. Clinton is passionate about it, citing in passing ‘tackling it during my husband’s administration.’ Clinton says that her plan is to help the uninsured and underinsured. Says her plan is “aggressive” and provides “subsidies.” How is that different? I’m not sure. Mentions health care tax credits. Is that the ghost of Giuliani? Says that single-payer, mandate employers, or shared responsibility are the only three options. Clinton says Obama does nto think it would be politically feasible for mandates for adults, as Obama cooly shakes his head and indicates he wants a response. Cites Edwards on “biting the bullet.” (JE PANDER ALERT)

8:24: Wolf jumps in about those that do not buy in getting sick. Obama says that paying back premiums for those gaming the system. Obama says some subsidies on Clinton’s plan are insufficient. He says he wants to lower premiums, not cap them. Cites Ted Kennedy saying that Obama can pass health care. Says that you need to bring Republicans and Democrats together and not negotiate behind close doors, and instead broadcast negotiations on CSPAN. That’s a bit naive. Wolf asks if the CSPAN thing is a swipe at Clinton, Obama says transparency offsets the power of lobbyists. CNN cuts to Rob Reiner.

8:28: Blitzer cites the health care plan being formed in secret in 1993. Clinton says it was the beginning of a “conversation.” Uh, dodge. Cites S-CHIP. She wants to regulate the health care industry to covering everyone. Really? Under what authority can you make a private company do that, exactly? I’m genuinely curious. Clinton says too much is spent on the clinical studies and experimentation and Medicare needs to be able to negotiate. Finishes where she started, with calling for universal health care. Cites the attack ads in 1994 about what people want and will accept. Talks about persuading Congress to air meetings on CSPAN being hard. Sigh. What a dumb area to have a disagreement over. Talks about building a pro-health coalition.

8:31: Why are you raising taxes to pay for health care? Obama says the GOP lost fiscal responsibility, and suddenly Obama rips into McCain way more than Romney did by saying that the Straight Talk Express lost its wheels after he stopped criticizing the Bush tax cuts. Moves into what his tax plan, been there done that. Buffet paying too little, and middle class too much, etc. And George Costanza is in the building. Someone needs to knee-cap the director here.

8:35: Clinton would allow tax cuts of those earning over $250k to expire. Talks about how bad US health care is for what they spend. Cites infant mortality rate. Cites other ideas, like electronic medical records and the Rand Corporation. Wolf wants to be precise!

8:37: Will there be an effective tax hike? They both start answering, and Clinton defers before Obama does, and he jokes about the rich crowd there being able to pay a bit more. Clinton wants to underscore that they are the tax rates of pre-Bush.

8:38: Immigration, now. What about the negative impact of immigration on the African American community? Obama first. He cites his work as an organizer and that the insecurity is beyond any one race. Says that it is scapegoating to just blame immigrants. Says that getting control of the borders is important, as it cracking down on employers. Cites a pathway to citizenship for illegals already here. Cites the problem being a problem of a bad economy, infrastructure and education.

8:42: Drivers license for illegals for Clinton. She says that employers exploit undocumented workers and there are job losses. Cites a black man telling her that he cannot get construction jobs anymore. Talks about helping “friends to the south” create more jobs as well. Goes over what the standards for citizenship would be. Says drivers license would be a ‘privilege’ that you can only address down the line.

8:46: Obama is asked about when he stood up for immigration. Cites who he worked with, again getting a dig on McCain. Says it does not poll well but it is the right thing to do. Blitzer thinks he was insulting Clinton. Obama says you have to stand up when its tough, not on the campaign. Wolf does not understand! He says that if you pass comprehensive immigration reform, you won’t have to deal with drivers licenses.

8:48: Wolf asks if she was MIA. Clinton says she cosponsored a bill before Obama came to the Senate. Do people understand how easy it is to cosponsor something? I just cosponsored 5 things. Done. She segues into discussing her endorsement of the Farm Workers. People out there are nervous about immigration and people are looking for some immigration. Clinton says she asks people what they would do about it, and they then understand. Wolf says what about drivers licenses. Clinton says it is a diversion from building a coalition.

8:51: Obama says she gave numerous answers before. Obama says it is a difficult political issue, and he agrees with Richardson (PANDER) on the issue. Says they agree more between themselves.

8:52: Clinton says they agree on that, and that she was supporting her governor but did not agree and Obama did not answer a question a week later. Says fair minded Republicans will join them on the issue.

Garkbit … err, I mean … Wolf Blitzer throws us to a break.

8:57: Question for Obama on Clinton being more experienced. Obama says a lot of Americans disagree as well. Says that he spent his life trying to bring about change. Organizer, civil rights attorney, legislator, and Senator. Says that bringing people, ethical reform, and talking straight is important. Says he respects Clinton’s experience but the skills he needs are important.

9:00: Wolf asks what of her experience in the White House means. She says it goes back 35 years to the Children’s Defense Fund. She worked for the Legal Services Corporation and grew it. Aide to prisoners and reform in Arkansas. Says she had responsibility in the White House, and if she was not successful, she got SCHIP through. Drug reform and adoption from foster care reform as well. Talks about negotiating with the Macedonian government and talking about women’s rights in Beijing. Said she worked with people who did not think they would work with her.

9:02: An ONLINE question! Ooooooohhhh! What about a running a government like a business like Romney? Clinton says government is not a business, and George W. Bush is a CEO type.

9:04: Obama says that his management style over the past year compares well, and Romney did not get a good return on his investment. Obama’s pretty funny tonight.

9:05: Clinton is asked about the endorsement of Ted Kennedy, she says she has her own Kennedys and that being the first woman president is a big change. I think actually making that argument is pretty bad; it’s about what the President does, not what race or gender they are. If George Bush turned out to be a woman, would that change anything for anyone? Aside from Laura Bush, probably not. Clinton then segues into a long discussion of whom you vote for based no the person themselves.

9:07: For Obama, how should you remember the Clinton administration? Obama says they look good, especially compared to the Bush Administration. Agrees you have to decide on whom they are. Obama says that he is bringing in a whole new generation of voters. Says part of being President is not settling and is reaching out to people. Obama talks up the high level of support he brings in (being careful to not take total credit).

9:10: Another online question: How can you have change when there is the Bush / Clinton thing. Pierce Brosnan in the house! I wonder if he pretended to kill some old guy in the bathroom with Greg Kinnear. She says she is proud of Bill’s administration. Talks up the change under Bill of jobs and surpluses. gives the line about takinga Clinton to clean up after a Bush to some insane applause for a line that’s been around for 9 months.

Wolf throws to a break! Just remember: “The purpose of the office of the president is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it.”

9:16: Wolf tells us people are outside. Sucks for them. Iraq! Both called for gradual withdrawal; why should people not worry about an open ended commitment. Talks about how she got into an argument with the Pentagon. Says it is more than bringing troops home, and is about protecting the embassy and what to do about Iraqis that helped Americans. Wants to confront the Iraqi government on taking action. Says they were both ‘pressed’ by some of their opponents in debates on the matter. Anti-pander? She hopes that 16 months is appropriate.

9:20: Obama doesn’t distinguish himself from Clinton on the matter, rather taking on McCain. Then talks about Pakistan and China, and how the war is undermining long term security. Obama says setting a date is important to send a message about how serious we are. Obama says that the approach to Iran within Iraq is a real difference between them, and that because of the difference he would offer the most clear contrast. Talks of ending the mindset that began the war.

9:23: Blitzer says it is a “clear swipe” at Clinton. Both of them disagree. Clinton cites Maxine Waters as someone that wants to get out of Iraq, and the CNN celebrocam 5000 actually finds her on cue. Clinton goes over some of the same territory. Clinton then says Iran and Syria will be drawn into divisiveness in the area and that you have to bring Iran and Syria to the table. Didn’t they just have the question on whom they will negotiate with? Clinton goes off on the ‘no permanent bases without approval of the Senate’ thing again.

9:25: Question on judgment on Iraq. Why did Clinton not vote for the Levin amendment? She said she believed in inspectors, and respects Levin, but that amendment was drafted in a way to subordinate judgment to the UN Security Council. Says she voted with Byrd on the value of a pocket constitution, err, I mean authority limited to one year. She blames Bush for waging the war and waging it poorly. Says that the issue is Republicans v. Democrats, citing McCain attacking her. Says the nominee has to have credentials and gravitas for commander in chief. (Uhm, that’s a swipe). She’s calling out Obama for being perceived as inexperienced.

9:29: Wolf jumps in with Petraeus’s comments on stability. Obama says he welcomes the progress and he wants the mission completed honorably. But says that calling it success means the bar is set below the sand. Says we are back to where we were 2 years ago, while Afghanistan is worse than it was before Iraq. Obama says consistency on the matter is an issue, and that it is beyond a problem of execution. Says it was a conceptually flawed mission from the start. Gives the standards for what he would do as C-in-C.

9:32: Wolf wants Clinton to just say the vote was a mistake. Clinton says sending inspectors was a good idea, and she believes in ‘coercive diplomacy.’ Says no one could anticipate how obsessed Bush would be. Says that she would not have done that if she was President. Talks about her visit to Afghanistan. Says you have to be as strong or better than Republicans on national security to “join issues of the future.” What does that mean? Wolf wants to know is she was naive for trusting Bush, and the crowd gets all over him for the bad question. Clinton answer by talking about how her and Obama were the same once he came to the Senate on the issue. Clinton says she was told by the White House that it was just about inspectors. Cites “we” bombing them in 1998 to get inspectors back in.

9:37: Obama cites the title to use force in Iraq, and it was potentially a vote to go to war, and the headlines reflect that. Obama says its about being right on day 1, and his judgment is relevant to how we make judgments in the future in a dangerous world. Cites the danger of terrorism and having finite resources. Says you need clear intelligence and a good rationale.

Blitz throws to a break. As for Wolf, “Charming man. I wish I had a daughter so I could forbid her to marry him…”

9:43: Back. Question for Obama on whether there is too much sex and violence out of Hollywood. Says he looks at it as a parent, and the primary responsibility if from parents, and not of censorship. Says parents need to have tools to deal with TV and the internet. Stevie Wonder! Rob Reiner! Obama wants concern on whom the more violent things are being marketed to, and you need to work with the industry on that.

9:45: Question on Bill for how he has criticized Obama. If you cannot control him now, what will it be like in the White House? Clinton says it is her campaign and should be focused on issues. Anyone care to bring up the NYT Kazakhstan article tonight? Anyone? Hillary is happy Chelsea is here, apparently.

9:47: People see them as a dream ticket, says Wolf! Jokes aside, Obama says that there is more road to travel and is premature and presumptuous to say anything. Obama says that he wants great people who can disagree with him in the White House. He says people want to know that government is on their side.  Wolf wants an answer!? He says Clinton would be on anyone’s short list.

9:50: Clinton agrees with Obama. Why is Wolf pushing for a hard answer to such a meaningless question that they have an obligation to not answer? Clinton says there will be a unified Democratic party.  Clinton segues into an awkward plug for her national townhall meeting on Monday. That was really, really, really weird.

That wraps up the debate. And one last line of our last live blog for the time being.

OR IS IT?? Wolf says there will be debates on Feb. 27 and 28 if there is no resolution by then.

As for post debate coverage on CNN, remember: “For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen. “

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Live Blog Of CNN / LA Times / Politico Republican Debate In California (January 30, 2008)

[NOTE: If you're looking for coverage of the CNN/LA Times/Politico Democratic Debate in California between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, you can find our live blog of that debate here]

Tonight is the CNN/Los Angeles/Politico Republican Debate at the Ronald Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California. It will begin at 8pm est and will air on CNN and will stream live at both CNN and LA Times‘ websites. The participating candidates will be Mitt Romney, John McCain, Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul.

7:45: 15 minutes to go. I’m not sure what the seating locations will be yet, but I do know that McCain’s staffer won the first pick for location on the stage and had to call back to headquarters to confirm the location.

7:49: Format: No rules, No time limits. I guess ever since Wolf Blitzer threw out the rules at the last debate, CNN’s just decided to really go wild.

7:58: Lou Dobbs is expressing outrage (not necessarily about anything specific…just outrage…he wants you to know that he’s very disturbed).

8:00: And here we go! Anderson Cooper begins with a history lesson about the room they’re in. Usually, I’m opposed to these kind of explanatory intros, but given the fact that the debate is being held under the old Air Force One, I can understand the need to explain what the deal with the plane is.

8:03: First question, are Americans better off now than they were 8 years ago? Mitt Romney says that that’s a question for President Bush, then launches into defense of his record in Mass. Anderson Cooper gets indignant and wants an answer, Romney shows viewers that he’s able to stand up to Anderson Cooper, but does offer some discussion of the problems he sees in America now.

8:06: McCain says he’ll bring some straight talk, offers a bit of gloom and then talks about making the Bush tax cuts permanent. McCain states that he believes Americans are better off now than they were 8 years ago, if you look at everything.

8:07: Huckabee plainly states that he doesn’t think we’re better off now than we were 8 years ago, states that the President isn’t solely responsible, so is the congress. Huckabee says that Americans want someone that is honest and straight with them. I wonder if he’s aware that McCain already has that catchphrase locked up?

8:09: Paul states the problems are caused by foreign policy and we must acknowledge that those policies need to come to an end.

8:12: Romney takes a shot at McCain’s conservatism by noting McCain’s NY Times endorsement. McCain reminds Romney that both of Romney’s hometown papers, which know him best, endorsed him over Romney. Ouch. McCain continues to talk up his conservatism by mentioning some people that support him.

8:15: Romney defends his record on job growth by noting that some of the negative data on job growth included a time period under the former Governor. He also explains the fee increases under his administration. Romney also touts the work he did on health care and notes that when he left there was a balanced budget and a small surplus.

8:18: Huckabee talks conservatism: lower taxes, streamlining the government, amendment banning gay marriage and a life amendment. Something about these, “who is more conservative” questions seem sort of pointless at some point.

8:21: McCain is asked about Gov. Schwarzenegger’s environmental law proposals, which are much different than the steps that the Bush Administration would take towards combating climate change. Given the impending endorsement for Arnold, obviously McCain needs to tread lightly and he does. He responds by noting that he believes in federalism, which has really turned into code for “I won’t force you to do something. Please don’t shy away from me because of this issue.” McCain then gives his oft used version of Pascal’s Wager for support of green technology.

8:25: Romney says that he supports states’ rights to control and regulate their own emissions. Huckabee then tries to explain why Federalism is good, he then goes on to state that Alexander Hamilton was wrong. Uhhhh….he’s having a difficult enough time staying in this race against Romney, McCain and Paul…I’m pretty sure injecting Hamilton into this race would only make it worse for him. *sigh*

8:29: Paul asks for some time to discuss and issue and Cooper denies him. For a debate that wasn’t really supposed to have rules, Anderson Cooper seems awfully indignant.

8:33: Talk turns to the economy…excuse me while I relocate to the top floor of my building, preferably a seat near the edge…

8:35: On the economic stimulus: McCain says that we will probably need more. Wow! This is like saying that we need more puppies, fluffier pillows or locations that have Coke Zero available from the fountain.

8:36: McCain is challenged on his initial opposition to Bush’s tax cuts on the grounds that they favored the rich too much. McCain states that he was a foot soldier in the Reagan revolution…then proceeds with obfuscation.

8:40: The topic changes to immigration. Huckabee thinks we need to secure the border. He says that two things need to happen in order to do that: 1) build border fence and 2) all current illegal immigrants will need to go back to their home countries and wait in line. Ultimately, Huckabee thinks this is the most compassionate and kind thing…

8:41: Romney is asked about his statement that most illegal immigrants could be deported within 90 days. He didn’t initially recall saying it, and the questioner offered him the quote. Romney talks about being courteous deportation. For example, if the family has a child in school, you let the child finish that school year first. Romney reemphasizes he would not allow illegal immigrants to remain here permanently, then suggests that McCain’s legislation would have allowed for such a thing.

8:44: McCain is asked if his legislation were to come to the floor of the Senate today, and he states that it won’t happen. After being pressed, he states that he would not vote for it because it’s clear that people want the borders to be secured first. It seems somewhat inconsistent for McCain to tout sticking to his principles and ignoring the majority on Iraq…yet, so freely acknowledging deference to the will of the American people on the immigration issue.

8:47: Huckabee is asked if Reagan’s appointment of O’Connor was the right call. He won’t answer the question, but then launches into a discussion of why it’s important to support life and how he would want judges that were pro-life. Ron Paul is given a chance to respond, he says he wouldn’t have nominated her because of her view towards the constitution. Both McCain and Romney dodge the question and instead state the types of judges they would appoint. In a bold move, McCain cites Alito and Roberts as examples of the kinds of conservative judges he’d support. Romny ups the ante and cites Alito, Roberts, Thomas and Scalia as the type of conservative judges he would nominate (Yea, that’s right, take that John McCain). Then, stupidly, Romney takes a shot at O’Connor for apparently not following the Constitution enough and for legislating from the bench. I don’t care if you’re a Republican, Democrat, hardcore liberal or conservative, if you think Justice O’Connor was a bad Justice, then you’re either completely uninformed or completely incapable of making evaluations. Sheesh, and I thought Huckabee was going to take home the award for baseless attacks on historical figures (yes, I know O’Connor’s still alive, but she’s done enough to be part of history).

8:57: And we’re back. Maybe, they’ll finally include Ron Paul in this last half hour.

8:58: Romney is asked about Peggy Noonan’s contention that George W. Bush destroyed the Republican party. Romney states that George W. Bush showed everyone that when America is attacked, we’ll respond. Uhhhh….is that really the best defense he could give?

9:00: Romney promises success in Iraq, which he defines as no safe havens for terrorists in Iraq. He strongly stated that he does not have a date for withdrawal and does not support a timetable. He accuses McCain of being un-Reagan like by raising the issue before the Florida primary and indicates that it may explain the results of Florida.

9:03: McCain reiterates his argument by reading the quote to Romney. Romney asks him what it means. Romney continues to try and defend himself. The audience seems to be on Romney’s side on this issue. Romney and McCain bicker. McCain’s tone during this exchange, reminds me of my grandfather’s tone when we were having an argument about cathode ray tubes once (he used to be an engineer).

9:06: Anderson Cooper regains control, unfortunately, it required his blue steel look in order to calm things down. Cooper asks Romney why he wouldn’t comment explicitly on the surge back in 2006 as he was preparing to announce his run. Romney is mad and accuses McCain of “Washington style” politics.

9:08: McCain responds to the Washington style politics line, by reminding Romney of the negative ads he used against him and Huckabee. He also reminded everyone that Romney used millions of his own dollars in his campaign so far.

9:10: Paul is asked about McCain’s line that we could be fighting in Iraq for the next 100 years. So let me get this straight, the rare chance they include Paul, it’s to ask him a question about John McCain? Paul states that both Romney and McCain are parsing over minor details of the same general policy - both supported going in and both support continuing the war. Paul’s gotten the loudest cheers so far.

9:12: Anderson Cooper asks Huckabee the same question given to Paul. Huckabee complains about not getting time and questions. Then casually says in regards to the 100 year fighting line, “oh it doesn’t take that long.” Then goes on to say that he’ll stay however long it takes to win.

9:13: Huckabee is asked what he sees when he looks int Putin’s eyes. Huckabee states that Putin has taken actions that lead to concern and that we need to have a foreign policy that emphasizes strength. Advocates a stronger military, you know, for deterrence. Is he actually arguing that a return to mutually assured destruction is the only viable foreign policy vis-a-vis Russia at this point? *sigh*

9:17: Romney explains geopolitics: Russia using energy to control policy, China “the wild west of energy” using energy and giving nuclear power to influence policy, Al Qaeda using terrorism to influence policy and the USA, which stands for free enterprise and freedom of the individual. I don’t even know how to respond to this painfully oversimplified explanation of geopolitics. However, would Romney’s analogy make Chris Patten the Wyatt Earp of China? I think so. But aside from that, Romney didn’t even discuss the topic (that he himself said he’d address), which was how he’d deal with Russia.

9:21: Romney’s argument: people ultimately look to Governors and not Senators to lead this country. He was a governor, ipso facto, he should be the next leader. Aside from that, he worked in the private sector, and then goes on his economic argument rant…

9:23: Romney is asked why he’s more qualified to be Commander-in-Chief than McCain. Romney doesn’t believe you need military experience to be Commander-in-Chief. Romney says that he prefers chess to checkers (I’m serious).

9:24: McCain responds, takes an irrelevant shot at Romney for having led corporations that fired people. Another ouch. McCain mentions Tom Ridge for the second time this evening.

9:25: Ron Paul states that these people don’t understand that the President isn’t supposed to run the economy and reminds everyone of that fact. Paul then discusses the monetary system. Paul’s discussion of substance causes Andersoon Cooper to become impatient.

9:28: Huckabee complains more about time. Then talks about less government and why it’s important. He states that governors are good presidents because they understand that no issue is isolated..that everything is connected. Metakuya Oyasin.

9:30: Anderson Cooper graciously gives all of the candidates 1 minute to explain why Ronald Reagan would endorse them. This is an appalling question for several reasons, none the least of which is Nancy Reagan’s presence in the first row.

9:31: Mitt Romney says Ronald Reagan would support him because he’d lower taxes. McCain says that Reagan wouldn’t support someone that changes positions and that Regan would support him because he held firm on Iraq and because he was a foot soldier in the Reagan Revolution.

9:32: Ron Paul talked about how he supported Reagan in 1976, when only 4 other members of congress did and how Reagan campaigned with him. He states that Reagan was very sympathetic to the gold standard (an issue that Ron Paul is very much in favor of).

9:33: Huckabee doesn’t presume to know who Reagan would endorse. Then speaks to the goodness of Reagan and how it’s important to recapture that can do spirit.

9:34: And we’re done.

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The Unfortunate Return Of Yellow Journalism

In this video, I discuss the content and tone of 2008 election coverage.  In my opinion, yellow journalism has returned and voters must be cautious, wary and skeptical.  Most importantly, they must demand more…

Part 1 

Part 2 

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2008Central.net’s Presidential Election Podcast (01/25/08)

This podcast takes evaluates the current state of the campaign and looks ahead to Nevada, South Carolina and Florida…

Feel free to email us questions/suggestions for next week’s podcast (you can also email an audio file of your question and we’ll include it in the podcast).

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Live Blog Of ABC News/Fox News/WMUR Republican Debate In New Hampshire (01/05/07)

This evening, the Republican presidential candidates will participate in the the ABC News/Facebook/WMUR debate in New Hampshire. The participating candidates are Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, Mitt Romney, Fred Thompson and Mike Huckabee.

7:00: Charles Gibson is explaining the criteria for being in the debate, not mentioning who was excluded. Gibson says the first 45 minutes will be discussions on three topics (perhaps akin to the NPR debate). The second half will be a more traditional format.

7:03: Diane Sawyer’s disembodied voice takes over, as she discusses the situation with Stephanopoulos. They review poll information and what not of both sides, noting that Obama and McCain have momentum.

7:05: ABC has their political team lined up as if they’re about to film a glamor shot of them walking down the street.

7:06: Facebook is here! Diane Sawyer says Facebook does not decide the debate, as they segue into people on the streets.

7:07: The press room is in disarray as the internet suddenly goes out.

7:08: The Republicans are on stage, left to right: McCain, Thompson, Paul, Romney, Huckabee, and Giuliani, who is smiling as broadly as possible. They have desks.

7:09: Candidate George Bush is contrasted with Bush at war. Would the candidates run against Bush’s foreign policy or for it?

7:11: Huckabee says there are times of arrogance, and that strength has to be used with full understanding of strength, specifically referencing Rumsfeld. Says we should go to war with the army we need, and with irresistible force, and not letting politicians interrupt.

7:12: Thompson says Huckabee has changed, that the number of troops was not what Huckabee was referencing. Says we are not arrogant, and that a war with radical Islam has been declared against us. Says he agrees there was a flawed strategy, and that they are winning now.
7:14: Giuliani references Bush going on offense after 9/11 to prevent another attack, and positive changes have been instituted as well as mistakes having been made. Giuliani says a major problem is that the military is far too small.

7:15: Gibson wonders if they believe in the Bush doctrine of preemptive war if the country feels threatened. McCain says he agrees and gives Bush credit for not having another attack in America since 9/11, since Bush would have been blamed for any other attack. Says America is not safe, but America is safer. McCain says he was the only one who disagreed at the time with Rumsfeld, but there is success now in Iraq. References Petraeus. Also McCain thanks Giuliani for leadership on 9/11.

7:17: Paul says he agreed with the foreign policy that Bush ran on, and compares Bush’s foreign policy to Clinton’s. Says this is the first time a nation accepted as a policy that “we start the wars.” Talks of the nature of the threat of terrorism. Says America is not attacked because it is free and prosperous, but rather because we invade and occupy, and have done so long before 9/11.

7:19: Romney says Paul does not understand radical jihadism, as it is intent on bringing down western and free governments. Romney says strategy has to be moved from military threats to help move Islam towards rule of law in the Middle East to help them, and that the military is part of the solution.

7:21: Thompson says preemption did not suddenly appear as an option. Says America has many threats now, and that different weaponry is being faced, not Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD). Says we should go in where “we should and where we are able to.”

7:22: Giuliani says he gave back 10 million to Saudis, and has nothing to do with foreign policy, but about perverting religion into hating freedom of religion and freedom of women.

7:23: Paul wants everyone to imagine if someone did this to us. Romney interrupts and says that Paul is reading the propaganda not their writings. Cites Bhutto and Sadat as Paul tries to interrupt back in vain. Thompson asked who we invaded before 9/11, and Paul says there was bases.

7:25: Huckabee says that he supported the surge and the President when Romney did not and Romney criticized Bush on 60 Minutes, but he is not running for Bush’s third term. Everyone tries to interrupt, and Huckabee says the threat comes from the jihadists, not Islam.

7:26: Romney and Huckabee argue over whether he read Huckabee’s article. Romney said he supported the surge from the beginning and McCain deserves credit, and to not mischaracterize his position. Huckabee rebuts “Which one?” to a huge WHOA in the press room. He half-heartedly defends himself before Paul gets the nod.

7:29: Paul asks why people attack the US and not Switzerland. Giuliani gives a laundry list of non-American sites such as Bali and the Munich Olympics. This is escalating into a giant argument.

7:30: Giuliani says there is a need for more interaction and trade. Paul asks why we support their dictators. A little more yelling at him, and Gibson interacts.

7:31: Question from Bush! He asks what principles people believe in.

7:32: McCain talks about principles — focuses on his basic campaign theme of restoring trust in government. Chides his opponents for not backing the surge as strongly as he did, then attacks Democrats saying that if we had done what they wanted “Al Qaeda would be trumpeting around the world.”

7:34: Now, onto McCain’s principles…this should be brief. And as expected, he doesn’t really discuss principles other than family and the desire to strengthen family through better schools, healthcare, economy and security. *shock* Romney didn’t actually discuss his principles.

7:37: Gibson goes over the flip-flop record of each candidate. Giuliani says that there are some beliefs you change and some you never will. Says even Reagan could not accomplish every single thing he wanted, but the general philosophy stays the same. Huckabee says its about principles deep inside us. Huckabee cites the Declaration of Independence. This is getting a lot of eye rolls in this room but will go over great among actual people. (Reporters are not people, I have learned.)

7:39: Not a right to be happy, but to pursue happiness. Policies reflect challenges of the moment, and priorities certainly change.

7:40: Thompson says principles should be based on the Constitution and separation of powers and federalism, and that you can learn from looking at what the founders stated. Cites the 10th Amendment

7:42: Paul asks why there are deviations from the Constitution; cites the declaration of war, monetary system, welfare state. Asks why we treat others like a bully. He is starting to rant about all his beliefs at once. He’s losing his self control.

7:43: Moving on to health care. News clip say that forcing people to buy their own, and not employer based is a larger change. Gibson says we are the only country that does not insure everyone.

7:44: Giuliani says we have the best health care system in the world. He says that people come to the US for health care. Thompson and McCain agree. Giuliani says the problem is not enough people buying their own health care.

7:45: Gibson says the math of tax cuts does not add up.

7:46: McCain says the problem is not quality, but inflation that needs to be dealt with so that health care costs become reasonable. He does the preventative measures schtick, and concludes by insulting Canadian medicare.

7:48: Romney touts the Massachusetts health care plan, which required no new money. Romney says a connector between people and the companies helps and solves the problems the report mentioned. Romney should delve into details more often, he’s really at his best right here. Finishes by attacking Hillarycare.

7:49: Paul says the problem is the trillion dollar war, although inflation is a problem. Paul mentions people in America going to India for heart surgery. (Medical tourism is real). Talks about borrowing money from China to finance the war. Good, but he’s getting shrill again.

7:50: Thompson has to be woken up to answer the question. Seriously. He’s stunned by Ron Paul. Paul jokes about Thompson trying to understand, and that sacrificing care is not something people want to do. Says the markets work, but total coverage will probably never be achieved.

7:52: Romney says he has not backed off of mandates, as Thompson jokes about him. Says the principle of personal responsibility is key. Thompson asks what the penalty for not agreeing to the mandate. Says the question is personal responsibility for those who can buy insurance. Says he would not mandate his plan at the federal level, but he would recommend it for every state, but disagreements are acceptable, citing Schwarzenegger.

7:55: Huckabee attacks the health care system, and how it waits until catastrophic injury, and prevention is key. He’s said this before.

7:56: Romney and Giuliani both try to jump in and Giuliani wins, touting his health savings account, that incentivizes wellness. This is not really persuasive in the amounts Giuliani talks about.

7:57: Gibson challenges people to substantively address real problems with paying for health care and they all demur from him. Weak.

7:58: McCain says that payment should be on totality, not individually based. He says the pharmaceutical companies are a problem and should compete. Romney says htey are not the problem, M