2008Central.net Presidential Election Podcast (10/15/08)

This podcast provides post-debate analysis for the final debate between Obama and McCain at Hofstra University…

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2008Central.net Presidential Election Podcast (10/12/08)

In this podcast we offer a preview of the third and final presidential debate between Obama and Mccain as well as an overview of the state of the campaign. We also discuss our most recent election projection and the polling trends during the last week. Additionally, we criticize both campaigns on their respective weaknesses and offer some unsolicited advice for improvement. And much more…

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2008Central.net Presidential Election Podcast (10/06/08)

This podcast analyzes the latest polling data, McCain Campaign’s aggressive tactics, Obama’s newest attack video on McCain’s association with the Keating 5, a preview of the second presidential debate in Tennessee.

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RNC Live Blog - Day 3: Including Gov. Sarah Palin, Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, Mitt Romney

And we’re off…

[All times are Central]

7:56: Michael Steele takes the stage (no, he’s not the guy that Pierce Brosnon played, he’s the former Lt. Governor of Maryland).  He announces that they are not gathering tonight as Republicans, but as Americans.  It’s statements like this that really frustrate me about politics.  This is a party convention, for the purpose of selecting a party nominee.  This is not an event that’s intended to be inclusive of all Americans, rather, it’s for the Republicans, just like the Democratic Convention was for the Democrats.  Just saying…

8:00: Talks about the importance of putting country first.  Then, he talks about education vouchers.  Huh?  Now, he talks about less taxes and less dependency on foreign oil by promoting oil and gas production at home.  He says what is likely the awkward line of the line, not so much for the statement itself but the tone: “Let me make this clear, drill baby, drill.”  The crowd begins to chant “drill baby, drill.”

8:03: He concludes by saying that in order to put country first, then McCain and Palin need to be elected.  Hmm, it was my understanding that tonight wasn’t about Republicans.  I guess that’s not the case anymore?

8:06: Mitt Romney takes the stage.

8:07: He says that in order to bring change to Washington, Washington is going to have to stop looking to northeast elites like the New York Times editorial board and TV anchors, and instead, needs to look west to McCain and Palin.

8:08: Romney says that Washington is currently liberal and in order to bring a real change, it is necessary to elect a conservative.

8:11: Mentions the need to fight pornography in schools.  I’m not currently aware that this is a major problem.  Oh well.

8:13: Mitt Romney’s suggestion for energy conservation: a cute joke about keeping Al Gore’s private jet on the ground.

8:16: Says, “Just like you, there was never a day when I was not proud to be an American.”  Also says that he believes by the providence of god that the GOP will succeed in the November and that McCain will be elected.

8:19: Refrain from the song currently playing, “If you’re going to hell, keep on going.”  I’m honestly confused.  Why exactly would one want to rush to hell?

8:26: Mike Huckabee takes the stage.

8:27: Thanks the “elite media” for unifying the Republican Party.  Then proceeds to attack the press coverage the past few days.

8:30: So far, Huckabee’s speech is pretty good.  It’s empathic about economic issues and ties it into his personal background (which was impoverished).

8:34: Huckabee says that Palin received more votes runing for the Mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden received during this run for president.  This is patently false (I just fact checked it myself).

9:01: Okay, it’s Rudy time…

9:03: Tells undecided votes to imagine that they are hiring someone to do a very important job.  They have two applications to choose from, no names or party affiliations.  Both applicants are patriotic with intersting backgrounds.  On the one hand, you have one man that dedicated himself to service of the United States and has passed very test that life through at him.  “On the other hand, you have a resume from a gifted man with an Ivy League education, who worked as a community organizer.” (The crowd erupts in laughter at that point).  Then proceeds to hit Obama on voting present 136 times while he was a state senator.  Follows up by attacking his lack of experience.  Says that this is no time for on the job training. I’m confused as to how the GOP is willing to make this argument given Sarah Palin’s lack of experience.

9:15:  Says that McCain will keep us on offense against terorism.

9:16: Says that Democrats don’t like to say the word “Islamic terrorism” because they are afraid - afraid of insulting someone.  Adds that when you say it, you are only insulting the terrorists.  Look, we’re fair, we’re nonpartisan.  This is just an incredibly dumb statement that really has no bearing on the election and has an incredibly weak factual foundation.

9:19: Criticized Obama for not taking public finacing.  Then says that Obama was against wire tapping before he voted against it.  *sigh* At the risk of sounding like some Obama apologist, which I definitely am not (see my scathing critique of Obama over his FISA vote), but Giuliani’s line here about wire tapping is yet again completely misleading.  The issue wasn’t about wiretapping, it was about immunity for telecom companies.  Look, either Giuliani doesn’t understand this or he’s intentionally deceiving listeners.  And since it’s Giuliani, and he’s a tough New Yorker and feels the need to use a little New Yawk speak, I’ll break this down: Either, Giuliani is dumb and doesn’t understand what the FISA issue was or he’s flat out lying.

9:30: Sarah Palin takes the stage…

9:35: Mentions her son’s upcoming departure for Iraq on 9/11.

9:40: She’s still giving shout outs to family members.

9:42: “What’s the difference between a hockey mom and a bull? Lipstick.”

9:43: Just noticed that Pali is wearing a flag pin on her collar, but not an American flag pin … and Israeli flag pin.  Interesting…

9:57: Attacks Obama for being worried that someone won’t read “terrorists who are plotting catostrophic attacks on America” their rights.

9:58: Says that Obama supports plan to raise taxes across the board.  And will increase the tax burden on Americans by hundreds of billions of dollars.

10:04: Says that the presidency is not a venue for personal discovery.  I’m still not sure how she is able to sincerely criticize Obama on the experience issue given her own shortcomings in the department.  It’s truly confusing for me.

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AUDIO: Round Table Discussion With 08 Blogger Network Members…

Following an organizational discussion, some 08 Blogger Network members participated in a round table discussion about the state of the presidential election. Some of the topics discussed were Obama’s FISA vote, McCain’s issues with his base and the political consequences, noteworthy takeaways and much more. Since this discussion took place after an organizational meeting, introductions are not included on the recording. The participating bloggers were iPol, potus2008election, me (2008central.net) and Divided We Stand, United We Fall.

It was a very interesting conversation, take a listen…

If you are interested in joining the 08 Bloggers Network, please email 08bloggers

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Ten Things To Read Today

If you only have time to do a bit of reading today, then these 10 articles should be what you take a look at:

1. Kevin Drum, Obama supporter, has had enough of bogus charges of racism against Hillary Clinton by Obama supporters apparently on the lookout for anything that could conceivably raise a red flag. I agree with him - some of the attacks, most of which he mentions, are dramatically over the top. Ross Douthat thinks that attaching labels of racism to complaints won’t get far in the general election. He’s also right. The red phone ad raised a legitimate question, time for holdout Obama supporters to get over it.
2. Fareed Zakaria finds that the pandering on NAFTA and trade hurts the reputation of the Democrats abroad; it’s disputed on how it weighs with other foreign policy concerns. I’ve talked about the pandering recently as well.
3. Hillary Clinton’s claims of significant experience in Serbia was refuted by the first hand knowledge of … Sinbad? No, really. Jonathan Chait is a bit stunned that Sinbad’s argument is persuasive. The Clinton campaign response, for what it is worth, is that Sinbad has more experience than Obama on Serbia. Michael Crowley thinks more should be made of Clinton’s role on Kosovo. Others, including Jonah Goldberg, point to a cover story in the New York Times that is a couple months old on the topic.
4. How organized is the Obama campaign? They’re using Iowa supporters to call the Edwards regional delegates for this coming weekends regional convention to get more support in Iowa. There are no reports of anything similar with the Clinton campaign.
5. Barack Obama and John McCain have a history together in working on ethics reform, as TNR explores at length and in detail (including quotes from the non-McCain loving Rick Santorum). It left a bitter taste in both of their mouths. Andrew Sullivan, though, does not buy it.
6. An Obama supporter used the 3 am ad to talk about the Clinton sex scandals and

Read more

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2008Central.net’s Presidential Election Podcast (02/21/08)

This podcast covers (1) the CNN debate between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama in Texas; (2) John McCain’s lobby friend that the New York times decided to write about; (3) and more…

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NYT: John McCain Has A Lobbyist Friend

Here’s the story. Here’s the story about the story.

Conservatives are … what’s a good word … corybantic.

Liberals are generally ignoring it.

Was this published by the NYT or TMZ? Even if we assume there is fire for the smoke they report, there’s a reason the Lewinsky story was broken by Drudge.

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Stunningly Bad Surrogates, Part 1 of Many

I could literally write a book on this for the Clinton campaign, but, alas, my spring brief calls. (And to be clear, there’s been stunningly bad surrogate work on all campaigns … it’s just the Clinton campaign stands out. See here and here. On the other hand, the Giuliani campaign alone would have been enough for multiple volumes.).

Joseph Wilson leads off:

But will Mr. Obama fight? His brief time on the national scene gives little comfort. Consider a February 2006 exchange of letters with Mr. McCain on the subject of ethics reform. The wrathful Mr. McCain accused Mr. Obama of being “disingenuous,” to which Mr. Obama meekly replied, “The fact that you have now questioned my sincerity and my desire to put aside politics for the public interest is regrettable but does not in any way diminish my deep respect for you.” Then McCain said, “Obama wouldn’t know the difference between an RPG and a bong.”

Mr. McCain was insultingly dismissive but successful in intimidating his inexperienced colleague. Thus, in his one face-to-face encounter with Mr. McCain, Mr. Obama failed to stand his ground.

You mean the ethics bill that Obama has made a staple of his stump speech that he got passed despite a lot of reticence from all sides?

Wilson spends the rest of the time wondering about Obama’s foreign policy credentials, and Wilson does raise some good points. But picking a fight over a nasty battle when Obama won the ‘war’ he set out to win is just silly.

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Live Blog Of CNN / LA Times / Politico Republican Debate In California (January 30, 2008)

[NOTE: If you're looking for coverage of the CNN/LA Times/Politico Democratic Debate in California between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, you can find our live blog of that debate here]

Tonight is the CNN/Los Angeles/Politico Republican Debate at the Ronald Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California. It will begin at 8pm est and will air on CNN and will stream live at both CNN and LA Times‘ websites. The participating candidates will be Mitt Romney, John McCain, Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul.

7:45: 15 minutes to go. I’m not sure what the seating locations will be yet, but I do know that McCain’s staffer won the first pick for location on the stage and had to call back to headquarters to confirm the location.

7:49: Format: No rules, No time limits. I guess ever since Wolf Blitzer threw out the rules at the last debate, CNN’s just decided to really go wild.

7:58: Lou Dobbs is expressing outrage (not necessarily about anything specific…just outrage…he wants you to know that he’s very disturbed).

8:00: And here we go! Anderson Cooper begins with a history lesson about the room they’re in. Usually, I’m opposed to these kind of explanatory intros, but given the fact that the debate is being held under the old Air Force One, I can understand the need to explain what the deal with the plane is.

8:03: First question, are Americans better off now than they were 8 years ago? Mitt Romney says that that’s a question for President Bush, then launches into defense of his record in Mass. Anderson Cooper gets indignant and wants an answer, Romney shows viewers that he’s able to stand up to Anderson Cooper, but does offer some discussion of the problems he sees in America now.

8:06: McCain says he’ll bring some straight talk, offers a bit of gloom and then talks about making the Bush tax cuts permanent. McCain states that he believes Americans are better off now than they were 8 years ago, if you look at everything.

8:07: Huckabee plainly states that he doesn’t think we’re better off now than we were 8 years ago, states that the President isn’t solely responsible, so is the congress. Huckabee says that Americans want someone that is honest and straight with them. I wonder if he’s aware that McCain already has that catchphrase locked up?

8:09: Paul states the problems are caused by foreign policy and we must acknowledge that those policies need to come to an end.

8:12: Romney takes a shot at McCain’s conservatism by noting McCain’s NY Times endorsement. McCain reminds Romney that both of Romney’s hometown papers, which know him best, endorsed him over Romney. Ouch. McCain continues to talk up his conservatism by mentioning some people that support him.

8:15: Romney defends his record on job growth by noting that some of the negative data on job growth included a time period under the former Governor. He also explains the fee increases under his administration. Romney also touts the work he did on health care and notes that when he left there was a balanced budget and a small surplus.

8:18: Huckabee talks conservatism: lower taxes, streamlining the government, amendment banning gay marriage and a life amendment. Something about these, “who is more conservative” questions seem sort of pointless at some point.

8:21: McCain is asked about Gov. Schwarzenegger’s environmental law proposals, which are much different than the steps that the Bush Administration would take towards combating climate change. Given the impending endorsement for Arnold, obviously McCain needs to tread lightly and he does. He responds by noting that he believes in federalism, which has really turned into code for “I won’t force you to do something. Please don’t shy away from me because of this issue.” McCain then gives his oft used version of Pascal’s Wager for support of green technology.

8:25: Romney says that he supports states’ rights to control and regulate their own emissions. Huckabee then tries to explain why Federalism is good, he then goes on to state that Alexander Hamilton was wrong. Uhhhh….he’s having a difficult enough time staying in this race against Romney, McCain and Paul…I’m pretty sure injecting Hamilton into this race would only make it worse for him. *sigh*

8:29: Paul asks for some time to discuss and issue and Cooper denies him. For a debate that wasn’t really supposed to have rules, Anderson Cooper seems awfully indignant.

8:33: Talk turns to the economy…excuse me while I relocate to the top floor of my building, preferably a seat near the edge…

8:35: On the economic stimulus: McCain says that we will probably need more. Wow! This is like saying that we need more puppies, fluffier pillows or locations that have Coke Zero available from the fountain.

8:36: McCain is challenged on his initial opposition to Bush’s tax cuts on the grounds that they favored the rich too much. McCain states that he was a foot soldier in the Reagan revolution…then proceeds with obfuscation.

8:40: The topic changes to immigration. Huckabee thinks we need to secure the border. He says that two things need to happen in order to do that: 1) build border fence and 2) all current illegal immigrants will need to go back to their home countries and wait in line. Ultimately, Huckabee thinks this is the most compassionate and kind thing…

8:41: Romney is asked about his statement that most illegal immigrants could be deported within 90 days. He didn’t initially recall saying it, and the questioner offered him the quote. Romney talks about being courteous deportation. For example, if the family has a child in school, you let the child finish that school year first. Romney reemphasizes he would not allow illegal immigrants to remain here permanently, then suggests that McCain’s legislation would have allowed for such a thing.

8:44: McCain is asked if his legislation were to come to the floor of the Senate today, and he states that it won’t happen. After being pressed, he states that he would not vote for it because it’s clear that people want the borders to be secured first. It seems somewhat inconsistent for McCain to tout sticking to his principles and ignoring the majority on Iraq…yet, so freely acknowledging deference to the will of the American people on the immigration issue.

8:47: Huckabee is asked if Reagan’s appointment of O’Connor was the right call. He won’t answer the question, but then launches into a discussion of why it’s important to support life and how he would want judges that were pro-life. Ron Paul is given a chance to respond, he says he wouldn’t have nominated her because of her view towards the constitution. Both McCain and Romney dodge the question and instead state the types of judges they would appoint. In a bold move, McCain cites Alito and Roberts as examples of the kinds of conservative judges he’d support. Romny ups the ante and cites Alito, Roberts, Thomas and Scalia as the type of conservative judges he would nominate (Yea, that’s right, take that John McCain). Then, stupidly, Romney takes a shot at O’Connor for apparently not following the Constitution enough and for legislating from the bench. I don’t care if you’re a Republican, Democrat, hardcore liberal or conservative, if you think Justice O’Connor was a bad Justice, then you’re either completely uninformed or completely incapable of making evaluations. Sheesh, and I thought Huckabee was going to take home the award for baseless attacks on historical figures (yes, I know O’Connor’s still alive, but she’s done enough to be part of history).

8:57: And we’re back. Maybe, they’ll finally include Ron Paul in this last half hour.

8:58: Romney is asked about Peggy Noonan’s contention that George W. Bush destroyed the Republican party. Romney states that George W. Bush showed everyone that when America is attacked, we’ll respond. Uhhhh….is that really the best defense he could give?

9:00: Romney promises success in Iraq, which he defines as no safe havens for terrorists in Iraq. He strongly stated that he does not have a date for withdrawal and does not support a timetable. He accuses McCain of being un-Reagan like by raising the issue before the Florida primary and indicates that it may explain the results of Florida.

9:03: McCain reiterates his argument by reading the quote to Romney. Romney asks him what it means. Romney continues to try and defend himself. The audience seems to be on Romney’s side on this issue. Romney and McCain bicker. McCain’s tone during this exchange, reminds me of my grandfather’s tone when we were having an argument about cathode ray tubes once (he used to be an engineer).

9:06: Anderson Cooper regains control, unfortunately, it required his blue steel look in order to calm things down. Cooper asks Romney why he wouldn’t comment explicitly on the surge back in 2006 as he was preparing to announce his run. Romney is mad and accuses McCain of “Washington style” politics.

9:08: McCain responds to the Washington style politics line, by reminding Romney of the negative ads he used against him and Huckabee. He also reminded everyone that Romney used millions of his own dollars in his campaign so far.

9:10: Paul is asked about McCain’s line that we could be fighting in Iraq for the next 100 years. So let me get this straight, the rare chance they include Paul, it’s to ask him a question about John McCain? Paul states that both Romney and McCain are parsing over minor details of the same general policy - both supported going in and both support continuing the war. Paul’s gotten the loudest cheers so far.

9:12: Anderson Cooper asks Huckabee the same question given to Paul. Huckabee complains about not getting time and questions. Then casually says in regards to the 100 year fighting line, “oh it doesn’t take that long.” Then goes on to say that he’ll stay however long it takes to win.

9:13: Huckabee is asked what he sees when he looks int Putin’s eyes. Huckabee states that Putin has taken actions that lead to concern and that we need to have a foreign policy that emphasizes strength. Advocates a stronger military, you know, for deterrence. Is he actually arguing that a return to mutually assured destruction is the only viable foreign policy vis-a-vis Russia at this point? *sigh*

9:17: Romney explains geopolitics: Russia using energy to control policy, China “the wild west of energy” using energy and giving nuclear power to influence policy, Al Qaeda using terrorism to influence policy and the USA, which stands for free enterprise and freedom of the individual. I don’t even know how to respond to this painfully oversimplified explanation of geopolitics. However, would Romney’s analogy make Chris Patten the Wyatt Earp of China? I think so. But aside from that, Romney didn’t even discuss the topic (that he himself said he’d address), which was how he’d deal with Russia.

9:21: Romney’s argument: people ultimately look to Governors and not Senators to lead this country. He was a governor, ipso facto, he should be the next leader. Aside from that, he worked in the private sector, and then goes on his economic argument rant…

9:23: Romney is asked why he’s more qualified to be Commander-in-Chief than McCain. Romney doesn’t believe you need military experience to be Commander-in-Chief. Romney says that he prefers chess to checkers (I’m serious).

9:24: McCain responds, takes an irrelevant shot at Romney for having led corporations that fired people. Another ouch. McCain mentions Tom Ridge for the second time this evening.

9:25: Ron Paul states that these people don’t understand that the President isn’t supposed to run the economy and reminds everyone of that fact. Paul then discusses the monetary system. Paul’s discussion of substance causes Andersoon Cooper to become impatient.

9:28: Huckabee complains more about time. Then talks about less government and why it’s important. He states that governors are good presidents because they understand that no issue is isolated..that everything is connected. Metakuya Oyasin.

9:30: Anderson Cooper graciously gives all of the candidates 1 minute to explain why Ronald Reagan would endorse them. This is an appalling question for several reasons, none the least of which is Nancy Reagan’s presence in the first row.

9:31: Mitt Romney says Ronald Reagan would support him because he’d lower taxes. McCain says that Reagan wouldn’t support someone that changes positions and that Regan would support him because he held firm on Iraq and because he was a foot soldier in the Reagan Revolution.

9:32: Ron Paul talked about how he supported Reagan in 1976, when only 4 other members of congress did and how Reagan campaigned with him. He states that Reagan was very sympathetic to the gold standard (an issue that Ron Paul is very much in favor of).

9:33: Huckabee doesn’t presume to know who Reagan would endorse. Then speaks to the goodness of Reagan and how it’s important to recapture that can do spirit.

9:34: And we’re done.

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Live Blog of South Carolina CNN / CBC Democratic Debate (January 21, 2007)

5:51: The debate starts at 8 pm tonight on CNN. It’s been a yin/yang sort of day, with the candidates making nice over Martin Luther King while Obama calls Bill Clinton a liar, more or less. Lucky us, we have master of the subtle Wolf Blitzer to guide us through the minefield. Also, note that Clinton might be pressed on reports that she’s not going to be back in South Carolina after tonight until Friday.

5:59: One other thing; thankfully, we’re Kucinich-free tonight as well. He’s not a viable contender at this point, so spare me the whining.

7:40: Back. To commenters, the debate is streaming on cnn.com. Right now Howard Dean is addressing the audience. Presumably, he’s not scheming to steal their delegates. (But he also is not addressing a silly emerging controversy that is completely his fault.)

7:42: Rules of the debate. Apparently the Secret Service did not allow any cell phones or pagers into the building. CNN is also excited to show America the candidates walking onto the stage, citing transparency. Hey, they’re CNN, they do dumb crap like show candidates walking instead of debating or talking policy. The first half of the debate is a podium debate with rules, and the second half is candidates seated with ‘no rules’! CNN is sadly excited about having no rules (if they are so excited, why not do the whole debate in that format?).

7:46: CNN cannot find Wolf. I’m serious. With any luck, he’s lost and we’ll get a real moderator.

7:47: CNN presses for applause on 40 members of Congress showing up. Well, they’re not busy doing anything else, there’s no excuse to not be there.

7:48: The CNN Washington Bureau Chief says his Blackberry is going off, and a disembodied voice demands that he get applause; he’s run out of things to talk about, and a member of the audience demands he start telling jokes.

7:50: They found Blitzer. Damnit.

7:52: Blitzer says it is fun, and his fourth debate. He introduces himself. Regarding his name, he “did not make it up for the first Gulf War” and it is his real name. This is absurd.

7:54: This is a two and a half hour debate? What the hell? I’m betting 65% of it is pointless. Blitzer says it’s not easy, and he’s right; picking out inane topics to fill so much time is a tough job. Blitzer is concerned and has a guy ‘fix him’ to ‘make sure he looks good.’ He asks the audienceif they have any questions, and they demand to know where he was; he laughs it off, which is emblematic of the whole program.

7:57: Joe Johns and Suzanne Malvaeux are there. Blitzer says he always saw Malvaeux covering ’some ugly story in Washington’ every night. Good to know his true opinions of Washington, apparently.

7:59: Disembodied British voice congratulates me on watching the process, whatever that means. I feel like I’m watching dirty laundry, if that makes any sense.

8:00: If there are no rules in the second half, can Dennis Kucinich wander up on stage? CNN is really pushing no rules, but at the same time, half of the debate has the same rules they’re criticizing.

Alright, we’re actually starting, apparently.

8:01: It’s Martin Luther King Jr. holiday, Wolf tells me. He announces the candidates are not on stage, but the press pool is. Thanks, Wolfman. Edwards is introduced first, Obama second (to slightly louder cheers than Edwards, whom he gives a half hug to), and Clinton (to regular cheers). She loudly welcomes Barack, John, and Wolf by name. No half hug for Hillary.

8:03: Clyburn in the house, as Malveaux says people want substance. Well, no shit sherlock. But we’re watching people takes pictures of people hugging.

8:04: You can’t have a moment of inactivity without Dean popping back up onstage. Joe Johns says people want to know who is on the ballot. Groundbreaking analysis from the best political team on television, or meaningless drivel? You be the judge!

The press finally starts to get out of the way.

8:06: More housekeeping, although ironically without an illegal immigrant. Maybe they are coming for Blitzer’s job? Blitzer says they are on the honor system for time. Good luck with that.

8:07: He’s still going on as if this is a new idea, not the 98th debate or whatever it is.

8:08: Joe Johns asks Clinton about the economy, and worldwide markets in a tailspin. He wants to know how much the average South Carolinian will get. Umm, WTF? Clinton talks about most of her plan going to deal with the mortgage crisis and a moratorium on foreclosures. She also talks about freezing the interest rate for 5 years, and giving people $650 to deal with energy costs; she segues from that to creating green jobs; she says rebates need to be done right and need to target seniors and ‘working people’ who do not pay income tax. Thanks the CBC for leading on the issue. Obama points out the King march on Washington was for jobs and not only for justice. Says Bush ruined the economy and failed with his leadership on the war and education. He says that Clinton caught up with him on rebates after he mentioned tax cuts, and mentions the same demographics as Clinton. Blitzer asks if $650 is enough. (Seriously, this is what is being discussed). Obama says Social Security is a manner through which you can provide rebates and money for energy. Edwards starts by making up for his gender and race by talking up the CBC and the work of King, and how bad poverty is. He does admit there is no rebates in his package, but says he wants to end poverty. He says the difference is that he provides long term benefits in energy. Clinton just talked about doing this. Edwards says there is a difference on jobs, and the Peru trade deal hurt South Carolina … but Blitzer cuts him off and distinguishes the candidates on long term v. short term. This is an unfocused mess, with everyone giving their own talking points on the economy.

8:16: Obama says green jobs are important, but a long term focus. Says an immediate stimulus is necessary, not just long term. Obama says there are textile mills closed because of Nafta (and hits Clinton on it again). On Peru, Obama says Peru had standards for environment and labor, and the economy is the size of New Hampshire, and concludes by hitting Edwards on China. This is a hard hitting debate from Obama and Edwards so far. Clinton says that her original plan allowed for rebates, but does not want Republicans to alter the tax code, but now is too late and there is no other option. She criticizes Bush instead of responding in turn to Obama. She also talks up the green jobs, specifying some program in Oakland, before allowing that it is a long term issue. Says the CBC will lead on green jobs. This is awful and unfocused. Edwards says his green jobs would be created within 30 days. Edwards’ father is in the audience. Edwards says enforcement of standards lies with Bush. Obama says that he’ll be enforcing the laws in a year. Obama says Edwards gives powerful talk, but he’s taken action on the matter as a community organizer. Obama is criticizing Edwards for talk as compared to his action. Interesting turn of the tables.

8:22: Question for Obama on fiscal responsibility. Obama says that what Clinton said was not true, and it’s part of a pattern of factually inaccurate statements. Wow, Obama on the warpath. Criticizes Bill’s statements on his position on Iraq, or statements on ideas since Reagan. Says improvements matter, and that he’s tried to run a substantive campaign.Clinton responds that’your record and what you say does matter.’ Says Obama continually has to clarify what he said. Clinton says Republican ideas were bad, but Obama liked them “and we can give you the exact quote.” Says there is no evidence on his site on how he would pay for foreign programs. Says that he did oppose the war in 2002, but took the speech off his site and agreed with Bush and voted to fund the war. Says it is about words v. action. Obama said Clinton just lied about his statements and the two start bickering. Criticizes Clinton for being a corporate lawyer on the board of Walmart, and he spent a lifetime fighting Reagan’s policies. Says that appealing to independents and Republicans to build a working majority. Says Clinton and Bill Clinton praised Reagan in Brokaw’s book. Edwards starts yelling and Clinton goes off. Obama jumps in that he does not know who he is running against. This is great. Obama says he did not say the ideas were good ones. Clinton brings in Rezko and calls him a slum landlord, and Blitzer goes … to Edwards, who complains about being left out. Edwards says this squabbling helps no one, and is not about candidates personally. Goes back to fiscal responsibility and touts his plans. Edwards says Obama and he both talked about reform of Social Security, but Hillary does not talk about raising the cap even though it makes sense economically. Says Clinton does not want to talk about raising taxes.

8:33: Johns asks Edwards if lenders have specifically targeted African Americans? Edwards says yes, it’s a racial issue. Then he immediately backs off and says they targeted the lowest income families who tend to be black. Says we cannot pretend there is not a history of slavery and discrimination; that leaves African Americans more vulnerable to predatory lenders. Says he saw 38 foreclosures in one block in Cleveland. That’s because there’s no jobs there, John. I lived there. Says people need to be taught financial responsibility. Blitzer says Greenspan that plans like Clinton’s would prolong the agony by having a freeze. Clinton says economists were wrong for the past years, and it is destroying dreams of Americans, and it is a ‘work out’ not a ‘bail out.’ Says banks can borrow money from Abu Dhabi but people lose their homes. Obama says that helping people is important, not helping the speculators. He says it is not new, and there is a long history of preying on poor people. Echoes Edwards in that more people need access to banks. He talks of his action in introducing a bill two years ago and what he did in Illinois. Talks about the bankruptcy bill of 2001, and Clinton’s statement that she voted for it but hoped it would not pass. Obama gets a chance to respond to the charges on Rezko. Says he did five hours of work in a long firm for a church group, but the biggest issue is people trusting leaders. Clinton responds that she regretted voting for it and said so, and opposed a similar bill in 2005. Talks about an amendment of credit card companies charging over 30 percent interest and Obama voted for it. Also says that Obama did bidding for insurance companies in Illinois on health care. Says she is used to taking fire, and you have to expect attacks ‘in this arena.’ Obama says he voted for it but the limit was too high, and he opposed the bill the entire time. Oh, legislation. This is why Senators are not elected president. Clinton says Obama never takes responsibility and talks up the present votes. It’s a really dishonest line of attack. Obama says he feels bad for Edwards. Obama says he sponsored the bill in question. Says that he’s had family members be victims, and there was a legal problem with it. Says it presents one issue in the wrong light. Says people cannot say anything to get elected.

8:46: Edwards says that it is important to take hard positions. References the CBC taking hard positions. Wonders why Obama voted present. Obama says present votes indicated you had problems with a bill that you would otherwise vote for. Edwards says it would be safer to just not show up. Obama says there was technical problems with votes. Says he opposed legislation that put juveniles in the system as adults, and spoke out against the war. Says Illinois is different from Congress. That took too long.

8:49: On health care, now. Why are African American women better off under Clinton’s plan? She says it is not not government run and includes everyone. Says it will withstand attacks from the right. Says bills will be passed on to everyone, not just those sick. Johns asks if his plan covers illegal immigrants. Obama says it does not, since there are limited resources. Says there is an obligation to cover children. Says the critical issue is how to cover everyone. Says Clintons tried to pass health care in 1993 in the wrong way, that you have to have negotiations in a public setting. Says responsibility includes Congress as well, and that can only be done through the people. Edwards says none of the three plans covers illegal immigrants. Says you can strengthen the net of health care that could include people if there is comprehensive immigration reform. Edwards goes on to say that Obama’s plan is not universal. Obama says he received money from employees, not lobbyists. He says this is a legitimate policy debate, and that he disagrees with a mandate on adults that forces people to buy health insurance. Says Edwards allows that it might mean taking money out of people’s paychecks. Segues to his stock discussion of lowering costs and copayments. Says his plan reduces costs through catastrophic accident. Obama says that it allows for anyone to opt in, and that Edwards and Clinton do not coverthose with hardship arguments. Obama mentions Massachusetts, and Edwards says this is like the Social Security debate. Clinton says that you cannot get universal health care if you do not start out by standing for it. Says this is a core Democratic issue, and she will ‘go to the mat for it.’ Talks about Obama being for single payer in the past, and this being separate. She links it back to the ‘present’ votes and cites Sweet (I think) who said it was taking a pass. Obama gets 30 seconds and Edwards wishes him luck. Says if you are not making health care affordable that you cannot mandate it. Says that people will purchase the health care if it is affordable. Says that a single payer is only preferable in theory. Says that Hillary’s presentations have evolved. This is tense.

9:03: Moving to Iraq for the first time in a long time, it seems. Question about her statement that the next president has to end the war. Does she want to end the war or win it? She says she wants to bring troops home, and there is no military solution. Says that ‘the so called surge’ was able to pacify some areas, but the purpose of the surge was to move the Iraqi government quickly towards resolution. Says the political debate is motivating Iraqis. Blitzer asks Edwards about McCain saying the surge is working. Edwards says the surge was intended to create an environment for political progress. He jokes about even Bush recognizing it. Says there has been no meaningful political progres, then just a little. Edwards says everyone is committed to ending the war, but how quickly and aggressively is a question. Obama gives the careful getting out as careless getting in line. Says it depends on what happens in the next year, but creating a stable Iraqi government with no permanent bases is the goal. Obama says that financially the war is not sustainable, and Al Qaeda is stronger than ever since 2001 and needs to be addressed. Clinton says she will move as quickly as possible, and agrees with Obama on not knowing what will be inherited from Bush. Clinton mentions Bush’s argument of pushing for permanent bases in Iraq without the consent of Congress. Touts the CBC working on this legislation.

Time for a commercial debate. No rules, coming up. I hope Kucinich wanders up on stage. That would be high comedy.

9:15: The crowd laughs at the inability of CNN to exchange podiums for chairs.

9:19: Seven minutes later, the chairs are in place. Question for Obama on Rangel saying that black voters should do not what makes them feel good but is what is best for the country. Obama says the notion is right and women should vote that way and white males, Says he is running because he wants to bring the country together, and looks forward to working with him as President. Awkward question.

9:21: More awkward question, on whether African Americans will be seen differently if there is an African American president. Says that he is on the vanguard of issues Kings worked for, like poverty. This is as pointless as the MSNBC debate. Really, really, really dumb. Clinton respects his commitment to end poverty, and talks of working at the Children’s Defense fund after graduating law school. It’s why she is in legal service, etc. She wants a ‘reality check’ on how to end poverty. Says African Americans lost income under Bush, but were gained income in the 90s. She may as well be screaming ‘the 90s were great! Let’s go back!’ Obama says that he has put forward a poverty plan, but it’s more than talking about it during a campaign, and he worked in low income areas. He says that it’s not about race, but people want to move beyond it for positive change, partially blaming the media. Says there is an “African American, a woman, and John” to laughter, and talks up the Democratic Party on the issues. Edwards cites his battles with Bill O’Reilly on homeless veterans, and other work. It’s a resume battle and Richardson is nowhere to be seen. Edwards tells a story about poverty.

9:31: Question for Obama on Bill Clinton being the first black president. What does Obama think? Hillary chuckles. Obama cites Bill’s affinity with the African American community that still exists that is well earned. Says that the progress made indicates that people can change, and Bill is emblematic of that. Says that he’d have to look into Bill’s dancing abilities ‘before he judges whether he was a brother.’ Hillary says that can be arranged, and this is suddenly a love in. What a weird shift. Clinton says the stage celebrates King. Cites the ‘content of our character’ comment of King. Says the differences between them have a responsibility to be brought out. Obama says that there should not be too much civility. He says that ingoring the race and gender of a candidate does not mean you ignore racial problems in the country. Clinton moves into gender inequality as Obama agrees. There’s absolutely no attacks anymore. How strange. She goes onto attacking Republicans for not addressing these issues. John Edwards says his father who is in the audience (and worked in a mill!) taught him that people that work in the mill and own the mill are equal. Says America is not just about rich folks who can move out of problem neighborhoods.

9:40: Clinton is asked about Bill overshadowing her, as the audience oooohs. She defends him advocating on her behalf, but the campaign is not about spouses. Says what matters is who is the best president on day 1 and who can withstand the Republican attacks. Says it is not about them, but about the people, citing her 35 years of experience. It’s turning into a list of talking points, and I get the feeling attacks are coming. She says politics is not a game. Obama says he would expect Bill to campaign vigorously. Obama mentions that he is troubled to the extent of which his record is portrayed. Obama tries to distinguish withstanding the attacks from redrawing the political boundries to get through legislation they are talking about. Says that Bush and Cheney have given their party a bad name, and its a crucial opportunity to expand the Democratic base, and that there has been record turnout, noting that he is not taking all the credit. Edwards says people are voting for who is going to oppose McCain, and who can campaign against him everywhere in America. Edwards says he will campaign in the south against McCain. Edwards says it is important who can be competitive in rural areas, joking it is not a racial issue. Cites the CNN poll that put him up the most against McCain. Edwards is really tiptoing carefully on electability. Blitzer jumps in suddenly for another commercial break. Cue the overly dramatic music ….

9:52: Blitzer says there is a ‘raging conversation’ going on at CNNPolitics.com. But does not say what it is on.

9:53: Obama says he won rural areas in Nevada, and moves on to the issue of faith, saying that the Democrats did not reach out to evangelicals because of ‘choice’ or gay rights. Clever way to rebut the Muslim spears, but a bit heavy handed as he continually mentions he is a Christian. Hillary jumps in that there are polls that show her winning too. Clinton says a McCain nomination means a general election on national security and says she is the best on that issue. Says she has been there and done that and is still here. Edwards now says it is not about polls. Edwards cites campaign finance reform that McCain stands for and says that he made a commitment to not hiring corporate lobbyists. She says Edwards draws artificial distinctions and accepts money from people related to corporate lobbyists. Edwards says people expect something for their money. Edwards defends money he accept from trial lawyers who want him to stand up for rights in the courtroom.  Clinton says there is no difference, and she wants to get campaign finance. She says its important to look at the interests, not who rejects the lobbyists. Obama says no one has clean hands, but there are distinctions who can be drawn. Obama goes back to national security issues, and says that you take on McCain not by being like John McCain, but you have to have a strong contrast who stands against the politics of fear. Says he would not hesitate to strike if someone threatened America, but you have to describe a new foreign policy that looks at negotiating with enemies, instead of battling on GOP territory. Edwards says you have to appeal to youth and prevent them from going to Al Qaeda. Wants America to be a shining light. Reaganesque, ironically.

10:01: If MLK were alive - and Wolf points out he is not - why should he endorse you? Edwards drops the name of MLK III and  says poverty and equality. Cites the Voting Rights Act and people disengaged who do not vote. Obama says King would not endorse but would hold people accountable. Talks about change being from the bottom down, specifically mentions women a couple of times. Clinton says change comes from the American people, but King pushed political leaders and pushed them to be part of the movement, citing Clyburn and John Lewis (if you drank every time she mentioned the CBC tonight, you’d have been passed out by 9:30). She says she intends to follow in his lead, and everyone shakes hands as Wolf thanks everyone.

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Live Blog Of MSNBC Democratic Debate In Las Vegas, Nevada (January 15, 2007)

8:20: Dennis Kucinich has apparently lost his appeal and will not be appearing on stage tonight. That leaves Clinton, Obama, and Edwards.

8:47: Exit polls and early results seem to indicate a good night for Romney in Michigan, even though a few polls are still open.

8:53: Over to MSNBC. Their debate graphic is a boxing ring, which immediately makes me wonder if the debate is rigged. I’m affirmed in that stance by the news that Hillary Clinton was endorsed by and will campaign with Ugly Betty.

8:54: Chuck Todd is in the house, and predicts race will come up on the birthday of MLK.

8:56: Candidates are paraded on stage, Obama, Clinton, Edwards left to right. Harry Reid shows up to hug everybody and lead the debate in a moment of ceremonial non-productivity.

8:57: They’re sitting in a conference table that looks like it was an outcast from a bad King Arthur movie. Chuck Todd wonders what questions the candidates will ask each other, as if they’ll be anything really different. Olbermann is curious if the debate format makes it harder to attack someone sitting down. Seriously, that’s the analysis you’re missing. Apparently Republicans are dying to sit down, too.

9:00: Mitt Romney gets his big win in Michigan, and the Republican race is officially mucked up.

9:02: Harry Reid gets another shout out in yet another moment where nothing is accomplished. I think that’s enough Reid-karma for tonight. No applause tonight, and lights for time. There’s another moderator with just email questions.

9:04: Question to Clinton on how did we get here on race. Clinton says neither race nor gender matters, and cites Edwards being shockingly the son of a mill worker. Clinton says sometimes supporters are ‘uncontrollable’ in their exuberance. She recognizes MLK. Obama gets the same question and agrees. Edwards agrees and decides to add that he lived in the south when there was segregation there. He saw it! He lived with it! He takes a bold stance against going back to segregation.

9:09: On accountability, Russert asks if he regrets pushing the story. Obama agrees with Clinton that there were overzealous staffers, and that’s why he spoke yesterday. He says it was not a deliberate attempt to marginalize him as “the” black candidate. Russert asks about his campaign support falling off in NH. Umm, Tim, Clinton got a ten point bounce; Obama stayed more or less where he was. Obama says change happens because of what people say, not what candidates say. Russert asks if Robert Johnson will be asked to leave Clinton’s campaign after the faux pas. Clinton mentions the clarification he issued (that was complete BS) and moves on to a general line about people listening to what candidates say, not endorsers. Clinton says the comments were out of bounds “and he said that.” True, if today is opposites day.

9:15: Why choose between a black man or a woman? Edwards says it is about change and what type of change you want, etc. It’s personal for him! What is a white male to do? The audience laughs at the inanity of the question. Fifteen minutes in, and we’ve got undeniably the worst question of the night. Can we get to something that matters?

9:17: Question on women voting for Obama. Was his “likable enough” comment the cause of his loss? Obama points out how much of a non issue this is. I’m starting to regret live blogging. Get to something that at least might matter, please. Question for Edwards on whether he tag teamed with Obama. Edwards takes a bold stance in favor of telling the truth. Clinton gives him the stare of death.

9:22: Someone starts yelling in the back of the room briefly. Clinton is asked about the general election race. Clinton says there will be unity, and that what matters is who is ready on day 1, etc. She cites the highest home foreclosure rate in the country. Her experience is “rooted in the voices” she has heard. When asked if Edwards and Obama are prepared enough, she says that is up to the voters to decide. Obama is asked about saying he is not an executive officer. He says that being President means setting an agenda and having a vision, not making sure paperwork is done effectively. Bold argument to make, in that it’s almost surely going to be used against him should he be nominated.

9:26: Greatest strength and weaknesses: Obama, bringing people together. His weakness is organizing his desk, he needs people around him to do that. Edwards’ greatest strength is fighting for his whole life. He had to fight to survive! His weakness is a powerful emotional response. He tells a story about how he feels it in a personal way. Clinton says she wants to be an instrument for helping children. Change, Change, Change. Her weakness is impatience for not getting more change! Change! She segues into an attack on Obama, but that being president is being an executive officer. She says Bush failed at managing the bureaucracy. Obama says you do have to be a good manager, and hold your team accountable. He says in a light moment Bush was always on time and never lost any papers, but did not bring in different perspectives.

9:33: Question for Obama about the Muslim emails and slurs. He confirms he is a Christian and took the oath on a Bible, and leads the pledge of allegiance on occasion. He says people are smarter than to believe that. Again cites real issues that could be discussed, although denying this isn’t as much as a waste of time as the first 15 minutes.

9:39: Back from commercials.

9:40: Clinton is asked about Citigroup and Merrill Lynch getting loans from overseas. Clinton says they are ’sovereign wealth funds.’ She would like to know more, but looks at why this happened, specifically citing these companies betting on subprime mortgages. Edwards agrees with Clinton on calls for transparency. He further says all growth is as a result of the top 1% or multinational corporations. (Fact check?) He says the middle class does not feel secure in their jobs or health insurance. Obama says the lack of an energy policy is at root of the problem. He also says it happened because there was a lack of oversight by the Bush administration.

9:45: Edwards regrets his vote on the bankruptcy bill in 2001. He says universal health care and fighting for more change can help. He says getting rid of banks as an intermediary in student loans also can help. Clinton also regrets her vote on the 2001 bill, and points out it does not happen. She talks about changes to regulation that could help prevent another Countrywide disaster. Obama says he opposed both bankruptcy bills, and cites a bill he submitted a year and half ago. Cites the influence of special interest lobbyists on the issue. Calls for relief for those who cannot meet payments for health care based reasons.

9:52: Obama is asked about changes to the tax codes, and says he would consider exempting the middle class from dividends and capital gains, but that those like Buffet should not be taxed at a lower rate than his secretary. Refers to Edwards’ example of the top 1 percent. Clinton is asked about long term effects of the foreclosures. She says that interest rates will stabilize the market, and is in line with what the Fed is doing in the monetary area of the economy. Talks more about her stimulus program, which is intended for now, and not on or after inauguration, so I’ll leave the details out. Joking referral to timed lights.

9:58: Time for questions from each candidate to the others. Edwards says Obama recently passed Clinton for how much they raised from drug companies. Obama talks about the details of the donations not being directly from the companies, and that he has a record fo small donations. He says he wants to fight for public financing of campaigns. Apparently, there’s now only one question. Clinton says Bush is making the argument that he can make an agreement with the government in Iraq and have it be binding without passing the Senate. Obama says “Well we can work on this Hillary.” He says there is unity on the matter. Obama talks at length about his views on Iraq as Clinton looks like she loses interest. Clinton agrees on the pledge to start withdrawing troops, and Edwards’ cites his aggressiveness. Russert wonders why they did not pledge to him to be out by 2013. Obama says there may be a need for some troop presence to protect the embassy and fight Al Qaeda. Clinton says it is more than Bush, saying McCain wants troops there for 100 years. Edwards says everyone wants to protect the embassy, but there will be no permanent bases. Obama says you are either going after terrorists or you are not. Williams seems to indicate that this is his question. Edwards says he will keep troops in Kuwait, and that is different because it is not an occupation.

10:13: Back from the last commercial. Will she vigorously enforce statutes that require ROTC and military recruiters to have campus access? Yes. She talks at length about the valor of troops, and signing bonuses being taken away from wounded soldiers. She says campuses can work out ways aside from ROTC as a means of meeting the standard. Obama also says yes, saying how much more poorer communities are bearing the burden of fighting the war. Talks about an enlargement of the army to help out people going on multiple cycles. Edwards will also enforce it. He says its more than those who are fighting, but also homeless voters. Talks about narrowing gap between regular workers and military workers. Obama says he could not believe veterans paid for meals and phone calls in Walter Reed. Clinton says the traumatic brain injury in particular is problematic.

10:20: Yucca Mountain time! Williams points out that everyone promises to end it. Obama says he will end Yucca, as it is not based on sound science, and does not want to spend billions more on a situation that is not safe. He wants to get experts together. Clinton voted against it and held a hearing on it. Clinton points out that an Obama supporter wants Yucca and Edwards voted for it twice. Obama says its a testimony to the science that he never supported it as Clinton gives him the ‘who are you kidding’ face. Edwards says he is against it, but moreover is against nuclear power. Clinton points out that he voted for it, but Edwards points out that that was before some documents were revealed as forged, and he changed on it many years ago.

10:24: Obama defends his vote on the Energy Bill because of how much of an investment it had for green energy. Says if he could find a safe way to make nuclear power than it should be on the table. Obama wants to see where the science goes. Clinton says that the Energy Bill was the Cheney-Lobbyist bill that had enormous giveaways. Talks about ‘breaking the lock’ of special interests, as suddenly Obama is status quo and Clinton is change.

10:28: Edwards says the nuclear power does not solve the problem, and therefore cannot be part of the problem (?). He says Clinton raised more money from the lobbyists she referred to than anyone else. He says investing in more biofuels could help, and a moratorium on coal power plants. Clinton says her plan has been put forward, and does not allow for more coal plants. Obama talks about reducing the consumption of energy and the need to get more efficient.

10:32: Why not English as an official language? Edwards talks about a path to citizenship, and earned citizenship, as Williams points out that does not answer the question at all. He talks about learning to speak English to become a citizen.

10:33: Clinton is asked about the statement of a pollster who said there was not a lot of affinity of Latino voters for black candidates. She says it is a historical analysis, but that there needs to be focus on issues, saying she regrets not talking about more black and brown issues tonight.

10:35: Obama says Latinos in Illinois voted for him. He specifically cites standing with Kennedy and McCain during the immigration debate.

10:36: Email question for Obama about black dropouts from schools. Obama says it is about youth starting behind, and that early childhood education is critical early on. Obama talks about families and black fathers needing to do more. Clinton talks about families being crucial, and about a school she helped found in New York. Edwards says universal pre-K for every children is needed, as are second chance schools.

10:39: The leading cause of death for young men is gun violence. Clinton is asked about statements she made about requiring license for guns. Clinton says she is against illegal guns but is a realist. She says she wants a registry of people who are felons or mentally ill. She also talks about the assault weapons ban. Obama also allows that he cannot get a mandatory registry done. He talks about actions on illegal guns getting fixed. Talks about the difference between lawful gun owners and students who are subject to violence. Edwards says it is important to protect second Amendment rights, and that you can also protect against assault weapons. Anyone want to mention guns as protection? Anyone? Bueller?

10:47: Brian Williams welcomes us back to Los Angeles and people jeer, and Williams rubs in that he’s up $130. Williams asks Clinton about saying Bush threatened in 2004, but said that Al Qaeda attacked Gordon Brown. She stands by her comments that ‘we face a very serious adversary.” Williams is briefly shown on camera and looks to be falling asleep. Obama says America has been dominated by a politics of fear since 9/11, and compliments Clinton for her work in New York, but that citing it in the way Clinton did was a politics of fear. Says Iraq was a consequence of such thinking. Clinton clarifies to Russert that she was not saying Obama would be tested quicker than her, but rather that Al Qaeda tested Brown quickly. She says there is a difference between using fear like Bush and recognizing the gravity of the spectre of terrorism.

10:54: Edwards is asked if it was appropriate for him to talk to Musharraf the day Bhutto died. Edwards says he only requested a call, and gave tough talk to Musharraf, including calls for democratization and independent investigators.

10:56: When did you decide to run for President? Clinton, over New Years a year ago. She somehow segues to a plug for a town hall in Reno. I wonder if Dangle is handling security. Edwards made the decision in December a year ago. Obama says the time was the same, in December in 06. He touts his family handling the stress. He says the question is not whether he could win, but whether he should. None of these timeframes are accurate in any but the most esoteric way.

And that’s a wrap, for what was really not that memorable a debate.

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Live Blog Of New Hampshire Democratic Party 100 Club Dinner (Live From Milford!)

[Update: we've put up a video containing our commentary on the evening, check it out...]

Tonight, the New Hampshire Democratic Party is having its annual 100 Club Dinner. Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Bill Richardson and Dennis Kucinich will be delivering speeches at this event. You can watch it live on C-SPAN or online beginning at 6:30pm.

5:00: We’re inside the building and press and guests are funneling in slowly. There’s a sizable Obama contingent outside that chanted as the staff here unreasonably forced press (and us!) to wait outside seemingly indefinitely, and we saw what looked like a small mountain of Clinton supporters down the road. All 5 remaining Democratic candidates plus Howard Dean are scheduled to make an address tonight.

5:32: The place is really starting to fill up now and people are eating.

5:51: The guests at this event are staring at the people in the press area as though there’s something quite magical going on in here. (press area pictured right)

6:38: And … the program is about to get underway, to the upbeat tunes of 2001: A Space Odyssey. Nothing inspires more than monkeys arbitrarily starting to worship a giant pole simply because it’s there. For the record, all the candidates plus Howard Dean and the NH Dem Representatives (both who have endorsed Obama) and Gov. Lynch (whose wife has endorsed Clinton) are slated to speak.

6:49: They’re running the Space Odyssey video again! And once again comparing their primary to a bunch of monkey worshiping a pole that suddenly appears; worse, this appears to have been done without a lick of irony.

6:54: There’s a lot of implicit comparisons of Obama to JFK, who was the first guest of a 100 Club Dinner; JFK is referred to in opening remarks as “the young senator from Massachusetts.”

7:00: After the pledge of allegiance and national anthem, it’s time for awards.

7:05: Jeanne Shaheen is introduced just before John Lynch and she gets a significantly lower amount of applause than Lynch. Effect of Obama backers not cheering as loudly?

7:06: Lynch speaks briefly, introducing his wife who has endorsed Clinton. Touts New Hampshire as first primary. Thanks Dodd and Biden for their commitment and they are apparently here! They get a solid round of applause. Lynch continues, touting retail politics.

7:11: Former Rep. Richard Swett speaks, touting the large crowd and Jeanne Shaheen’s run for Senate.

7:19: Donors are recognized, with Obama’s campaign getting a massive ovation, and no one else cheering much; the Clinton campaign was listed second, and its people were not ready to cheer, apparently. But the Obama people have made their presence felt, in a volley past the Clinton’s campaign’s bow.

7:24: Edwards is not coming. Apparently he feels this event is too much of a bigwig event. It’s a party fundraiser, though, and it’s hard to see how allowing all the focus to be on Clinton and Obama will help him.

7:26: Howard Dean speaks. After noting his nostalgia, he talks up the big turnout, then quoting Reagan - yes Reagan - in saying it is “morning in America” once again. That should get some people huffy. Talks up 80% of youth going to Democrat caucus in Iowa, and Democratic caucuses being large. Makes a joke about him not going on lists of states, and strikes a pose. Says that the Democrats are mostly the same, there are no significant differences. That has to help Obama, right? Says that Republicans and Bush are the biggest problem. Says Hastert and Lott resigned to avoid being subject to new ethics law for lobbyists. Talks up Republican attack machine and the problems with certain voting boxes, specifically citing my home county, Cuyahoga county in Ohio. Says 3,000 people are here, and that constant involvement is what gets the vote out. Says he wants to go back to person to person contact. That’s … ummm … a bit outdated. I say that as someone who has seen canvassers up close. Says greatness has to be earned and more clichés, such as America being “healed.” Says there are no red states or blue states, just … purple states. (Obama almost had his penultimate line stolen). Says Martin Luther King would be impressed at the makeup of the Democratic candidates. Compares GOP candidates to the 50s, and finally calls for Democrats to elect the future. That speech has to make Obama’s camp smile.

7:40: Another round of applause for Dodd and Biden. Another round of applause for Dick Gephardt. And also a round of applause for Elizabeth Edwards, who is here. I’m baffled as to why John Edwards is not here; he headlined it 3 years ago!

7:45: We’ve reached the “Attack John Sununu” portion of the program. We’ll return when something we care about does.

7:50: Paul Hodes, who has endorsed Obama, speaks. He mentions Obama themes such as unity and change, while attacking Bush with Edwards-esque rhetoric. One forced applause plus a bunch of screaming into the microphone = headache for me. Obama people force some applause at the end.

7:56: State democrats are here and happy to be in the majority.

8:00: Carol Shea-Porter, another Obama endorser, speaks. She talks broadly about Democrats being right for people of all parties. Talks about the value of SCHIP while remaining otherwise neutral.

8:05: More state democrats are here and, shockingly, still happy to be in the majority.

8:08: Dennis Kucinich is here! His theme is that he is “Waiting on the world to change.” He’s still waiting, apparently. His wife escorts him to the podium, apparently to remind everyone that she is good looking. He says he skipped Iowa on purpose because New Hampshire is so awesome. Says no one should have to settle, and that funding the war is the problem, and they can be home in three months. Says he is “totally aligned with the mainstream aspirations of the Democratic Party.” Cites ending the war immediately and canceling the Patriot Act immediately, and that Bush and Cheney should be punished, and that there is no statute of limitations for war crimes. Gets a decent round of applause in a wild flurry; needless to say, none of those applauding will be voting for him. He calls for the “old time religion” of FDR and a new WPA. Talks specifically about the shipbuilding industry, as if its the 1830s and the height of the Clipper ship era. Gets silence when he talks about how he is going to solve things, but gets applause at mentioning that problems exist. He has a tone to him that makes him sound like a robot. Finishes with a call for impeachment against Bush and Cheney, as he whips out a pocket Constitution Byrd-style. Says he and everyone is viable.

8:19: Hillary Clinton is introduced to audio problems with her music. I’m not sure what the introduction music is, but perhaps it is appropriate that there was a glitch in the beginning. She gets a lot of whistles; there’s no cheering, just whistling. Again, not to go all John McClane, but this is not helping my headache. Asks a series of questions if NH is “ready” for a president … which is her new slogan. Says we know the country can do better and be part of the change. Says America needs a POTUS who is a champion; She uses her ’some people want to fight for change, others hope’ line … and gets a significant amount of boos, as she segues into experience. She’s really doubling down on experience. Now she moves on to criticizing Bush, and criticizes Bush for being divisive, and creating a sense of fatalism, and that America has to try. Now she’s adapting a lot of Obama’s themes, but just glossing over them, as she talks about saving the middle class, specifically through health care. Says her plan is politically viable and will cover everyone by bringing business and labor together. Says that “those” who offer “virtual health care” leave people out. This is BLATANTLY misleading, as she says really sick people cannot be left out, giving multiple examples; Obama’s plan leaves uncovered healthy young adults who would simply willingly not enter the plan. No one who is sick or unhealthy would not apply. Krugman for one is attacking this problem from Clinton’s side honestly; Clinton’s stump speech does not. Moreover, people are realizing that. She moves on to energy, and gives a laundry list of things that can be done. She then moves on to Iraq. She talks at length on Iraq, emphasizing how difficult and dangerous the situation is, and that every American, including civilians, need to come home, and that Iraqis who put their lives on the line for Americans need to be helped as well. She moves on to health care for troops. Concludes by saying that there cannot be reliance on false hopes, that there must be a president who is ready on Day 1. (She asks this as a rhetorical question, and an Obama chant breaks out! She quickly tries to recover and speak over it.) She says that she has taken plenty of fire from Republicans and is still standing, which gets her crowd back into it. Talks about finding common ground with Republicans when possible, and that she has stood her ground when she had to. Says she is running for President to give back. Does anyone believe that? No one runs for President for that reason. Says that she will make history, and that wraps her speech up as Bill and Chelsea join her very briefly on stage. Oh, apparently her theme song is the Dixie Chicks “Ready to run.” Interesting that the lyrics such as “You see it feels like I’m starting to care, And I’m gonna be ready this time.” And it includes nothing about winning. …

8:44: People are being told to take their seats before *Richardson speaks. (As the Clinton clan leaves, I am sure.) *Oops. Not Obama

8:45: Richardson is introduced to the U2 song “Where the Streets Have No Name.” Apparently he wants to run and hide and tear down walls that hold him inside. Either that or he is seriously concerned about poison rain. He speaks, introducing his wife first, for one of the only times this campaign. Richardson jumps in and says that the war is the only issue that matters, and that it is the only thing he wants to talk about. He blames the press and the president. A Hillary supporter near me blames Richardson for Clinton losing in Iowa. Richardson says his plan gets all the troops out in one year, and talks about his plan. Somewhere in this massive room, Joe Biden is rolling his eyes. Richardson says troops cannot stay until 2013. Talks about his experience as a negotiator and diplomat as being crucial to make this change possible. He then moves on from Iraq, breaking his promise to only talk about one issue that he made only 7 minutes ago, talking about health care and education, and how bad things are in America right now, including NCLB. He gets polite applause through his speech. I’m not sure Richardson’s plan to increase minimum salaries for teachers in Constitutional. As Richardson lists other initiatives and talks about people of NH being open to other candidates, a MASSIVE exodus of people starts moving across the ballroom - apparently Obama people getting ready to storm the stage. It’s pretty damn rude. Richardson is unfazed, and says that the national media should not decide the election. Says that turnout of Iowa showed desire for change. No sooner does Richardson’s exit music start than Obama chants start up. It’s slightly annoying … but somewhat charming at the same time. It’s a thin line where they risk turning into such zealots that they’re ignored, ala Paulites.

9:00: There’s an amazing amount of Obama supporters; This is an Obama event at this point. And it should be clear … these people did not buy tickets yesterday. These are $100 tickets that sold out long ago. His organization has constantly outperformed others at competitive events. I cannot stress enough how much Obama turnout there is here.

9:01: The crowd is forced to take their seats before they can proceed .. and the massive crowd starts booing. In the end it probably just made his crowd that much more noticed.

9:02: Obama comes out to City of Blinding Lights by U2. “The more you see the less you know.” Hopefully that will not be prophetic. He clearly gets the best reception of the evening. The crowd is standing for his speech. Says that in four days, they can prove the cynics wrong. The press is more attentive now than they were for Clinton’s speech. He gives the unity schtick .. and the place goes nuts. He talks about lifting the country up, not bringing each other down; with a lead, that’s a fairly effective shield against a lot of attacks Clinton might otherwise launch. Obama touts his ability to bring youth in Iowa, and how he watched it. Touts his specific support among youth, women, independents, and republicans. Cites Hodes and Shea-Porter. Says he ran because that America is on the cusp of forming a new majority in the country. (A far more compelling reason than Clinton’s, if as idealistic). Talks about how the majority can help solve the problems of Bush, but festered “long before” Bush took over. Attacks lobbyists; this is far more effective without Edwards hitting him on the issue. Another chant breaks out. Talks about challenging interests (Detroit, Wall Street). Moves to health care, and talks about his mother reading insurance forms on her death bed in a hospital bed, and that he understands that pain of seeing a loved one suffer. That’s a new story. Says that the reform will be done by the end of his first term. Says he will end the “tyranny of oil” and create a “green economy.” Talks about Iraq and Afghanistan, and closing Guantanamo. Talks about being a President who taught the Constitution. Talks about a politics of hope. Mentions the “fierce urgency of now.” Says the broken system cannot solve the problems of today. Moves on to talking about how people are calling for experience; says they are saying that entails boiling hope away; says that argument does not work because the real gamble would be to have the same people in the same system in Washington and expecting new results. Says that results do not come from more anger or “turning up the heat” but from more light. Says that working across the aisle when you know who you are gets things done. He is unbelievable with a crowd. Moves on to those who make fun of him for talking about hope. Talks about hope not being blind optimism or ignorance of roadblocks but the “opposite of that.” Says he knows how hard it will be to deliver health care, global warming, and environmental change is difficult. Cites his experience on the streets and as a civil rights attorney. Says a small group of folks believing is how great things start - the revolution, the civil war, world war two, and the civil rights movement. I heard a different version of this speech yesterday and right now it sounds completely fresh. Says this moment is the chance for this generation to make its mark on history. Cites hunger and thirst for something, which is reminiscent of the biblical line ‘hunger and thirst for righteousness.’ Says that his administration would heal the country, and concludes with the loudest applause of the night. Impressive speech thematically and how it was delivered, especially considering he gave a similar speech yesterday!

And that does it, we’ll be back later tonight and tomorrow with more from New Hampshire.

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A Rudy Co-Chair Said WHAT?

Via TPM Election Central:

John Deady, the co-chair of New Hampshire Veterans for Rudy, is standing by the comments he made in the controversial interview with The Guardian we posted on below, in which he said that “the Muslims” need to be chased “back to their caves.”

In an interview with me, Deady confirmed that when he made the comments, he was referring to all Muslims.

“I don’t subscribe to the principle that there are good Muslims and bad Muslims,” Deady told me by phone from his home in New Hampshire. “They’re all Muslims.”

When a mere campaign volunteer to Hillary got caught forwarding the madrassa email about Barack Obama, it was national news for days and she had to quit the campaign. While the parallel isn’t perfect, Deady’s comments are more explosive than the act of forwarding the email is, and Deady is more than a mere volunteer to Rudy’s campaign.

Giuliani clearly does not share those beliefs; even his most vicious opponent could look at his record and find that he’s not anything like that. However, presidents and those campaigning have a responsibility to reign in silly statements and actions by those they appoint to official positions. Something this egregious demands some sort of formal action, not a mere off the cuff refuting.

However, Giuliani has a history of keeping his friends close, and … when in doubt, closer. So taking an action on this could show to what extent he will allow friends to have free reign. With stories like Bernard Kerik out there, symbolic action can be important.

Update: The Rudy campaign reacted, swiftly and appropriately.

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Friday Briefing (November 30, 2007)

Republicans

Fred Thompson: Thompson, realizing these debates show him not at his best, proposes an alternative that will never, ever happen … You want proof that these debates are not the best for Thompson? He had to clarify that he was against abortions in almost all cases. Yes, the candidate who less than a month ago was endorsed by the NLRC had to clarify that. The new language seems to be ‘prohibited,’ but he does not say by whom; I imagine it’s the states given his prior statements…

John McCain: Jim Geraghty at NRO thinks McCain won the debate. … McCain is not seeing progress in the polls, in large part still because of his immigration and campaign finance positions, even though he can tout Iraq now. … McCain did a MTV/Myspace forum, talking in part about the dangers of global warming.

Mike Huckabee: A review of Huckabee’s record on taxes finds mixed results. … David Yepsen says Huckabee should be considered a top tier candidate now. … Huckabee was on Hardball and talked extensively about religion, while also criticizing the questions asked in the debate. It’s worth a read, if only to see Matthews go on and on about no religious test for public office and then only ask Huckabee questions relating to his faith…

Mitt Romney: A new poll shows Romney down three points in Iowa to Huckabee, and you know what that means: new commercials and new mailings from Romney. … The WSJ looks at the campaign work of Romney’s sons. … Romney made a dumb mistake in regards to the Red Sox in the debate, saying they waited 87 years, not 86 for a title. …

Ron Paul: Paul is on track to raise the most money of any Republican candidate; I’m not sure that doesn’t say more about the rest of the candidates than it does Ron Paul and how alienated the civil libertarian wing of the Republican Party feels right now. I wonder if any of the other candidates can tap into that at all. I’m not terribly optimistic. … More on Paul and that superhighway, including government denials that will appease no one who believes in it. …

Rudy Giuliani: Giuliani calls the Politico story on funding a dirty trick; Jonathan Martin at Politico shrugs it off with some good comments. That’s not an especially convincing angle, especially since the Giuliani campaign was notified of the impending article earlier in the week. More facts are still emerging. … The Economist says Giuliani would be the candidate for those who think Bush has been timid in foreign policy. …  Giuliani has a new ad up in NH, trying to make a push with Romney slipping virtually everywhere. …  An extensive fact check of Giuliani’s boasts about NYC crime going down finds that he might be overstating what he did. … Giuliani’s business ties to Qatar are being looked into for terrorist links. …

Democrats

Barack Obama: Obama met with NYC Mayor Mike Bloomberg this morning over breakfast in what was technically a private meeting, in as much as breakfast in front of a window before members of the NY media can be private. You can read more on this here or virtually anywhere, and see video clips (very pointless, imho) 105863">here. My take is that Bloomberg needed the meeting to be this public far more than Obama did. … Obama maintains his statistically insignificant lead in Iowa. … Obama rallied in Harlem last night with Cornel West and Chris Rock, and met with Al Sharpton prior to the event. …

Hillary Clinton: Reporters have struggled getting access to Clinton. Ipol commented on just that. … Hillary Clinton addressed Rick Warren’s AIDS conference and got rave reviews. … The Boston Globe says that New Hampshire is becoming Clinton’s firewall with Iowa so tight, but that race is tightening as well. …  Clinton’s campaign is calling for Obama’s health care ad in New Hampshire to be taken down; neither side is giving up over the mandates, but Clinton’s constantly on the offense and Obama constantly on defense on the subject. That has to favor Clinton if anyone. …

John Edwards: Edwards is also now too criticizing Obama’s health care plan. … The Des Moines Register takes a look at the vast differences in style and substance in John Edwards between now and four years ago, starting with the line: “John Edwards tells voters that there are still two Americas. What Iowa caucusgoers must decide is if there are two John Edwardses.” … Edwards outlined his trade policy in Iowa. …

The Rest: Joe Biden is at 8 percent and Bill Richardson at 4 in the newest ARG poll. Ipol’s take says everything I could possibly want to say on it. … Richardson is still trying in Iowa, even with prospects looking bleak. … Joe Biden threatened impeachment if Bush attacked Iran without the consent of Congress; somehow, I think that threat is more meaningful than Kucinich’s. Biden also attempted to flip the Secretary of State argument on its head. …

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Wednesday Afternoon Briefing (November 28, 2007)

Here’s what’s going on with Democrats before the presidential Youtube debate tonight at 8:00 EST (focusing on Democrats since I’ll be talking about the GOP constantly during the live blog):

• First, though, the adjective that struck me during reading this Politico story on Giuliani billing the city for trips he made through obscure financing was that this was Nixon-esque. And that may be a charitable interpretation if what is being reported is accurate. I’ll be disappointed if this isn’t mentioned tonight.
• Bill Clinton says he opposed the war from the start, in an implicit challenge to Obama on the matter. Not many people are buying it, including Obama. The most practical take is from Marc Ambinder, who notes the matter will take away from the message Hillary wants to strike in Iowa, which seems to be becoming a trend every time the former President makes a statement. The most meaningful take, if you consider this an important issue, is probably from Ben Smith, who notes that the truth of the matter comes down to what you believe regarding the 2002 vote, which the Clintons have constantly stated was for coercive diplomacy, not a vote for war. Either way is arguable, to some extent. It looks now like a hell of a thesis could be written on to what degree Bill Clinton is actively helping or hurting the Clinton campaign.
• Barack Obama, on the other hand, may have backhandedly insulted rural Iowans by saying that it’s surprising how engaged they can be in the world. Not to get too far ahead, but that statement and the statement on Nightline that “Every place is Barack Obama country once Barack Obama’s been there” reek a little bit of arrogance, something that his campaign has been taking great pains to avoid until recently. They’re arguably the type of mistakes that may have helped doom Dean. But like I implied above, it’s far from a complete comparison at this point, just something to keep an eye on. To me, it does not really sound like that if you are lsitening to him speak, but it certainly reads like it. It’s certainly somewhat risky rhetoric, although as a native midwesterner, I have no problem saying there is a stereotype of ignorant Midwesterners. The more time Obama’s campaign has to deal with non-issues like this, the worse off it will be in the long run. For instance, no one is really talking about the foreign policy summit he held in New Hampshire yesterday. (Although, the conditions on Hamas sound a lot like parsing …). Also, Ambinder also points out how hypocritcal the attacks of Obama on Clinton regarding her comments on health care might be. More importantly, though, might be the fact that health care in insanely complicated, and it seems unlikely people will sort these problems out themselves. (And I might side with the voters on this one: what are the chances anyone’s plan gets passed through Congress unchanged?) On a more positive Obama note, however, this Post profile of Michelle Obama highlights a strength of the Obama campaign that the likes of Bill Bradley and Howard Dean did not have. (Hat tip: Hotline)
• There’s not much going on with John Edwards right now that’s as interesting or prominent as what I noted above. He won’t release what he asked from UNC in addition to a salary when he went back in 2005, but even though it seems nothing was granted, requesting college basketball tickets hardly seems outrageous. I’m all for disclosure, but keeping this harmless information out of the news cycle is a smart move on his part. … He also launched a theme week about being anti-corporate. This also includes launching a pledge to not caucus for anyone who takes lobbyist money (ahem, Clinton). You can basically take this as his intention to make a deal with Obama or another candidate come Caucus time. It really appears to me as if he wants Clinton to lose more than he wants to win. …
• Regarding other Democratic candidates, the IAFF (fire fighters) are launching a Dodd initiative in Iowa starting tomorrow. It’s that support that helped Kerry come back, but I’m not optimistic of lightning striking twice here, for too many reasons. Give Dodd an A for effort, though. … Richardson found an outlet for his pro-gun stance (that no one really seems to care a lot about anymore. Remember when that was one of the top few issues a decade ago?). Speaking of the 1990s, is using the Unser family now just about a decade too late? Also, Richardson won’t be sleeping over at your place anytime soon. … Remember when Kucinich was trying to highlight his more moderate positions to gain more support? Me neither. … Joe Biden keeps talking Iraq, and that’s probably for the best. …

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Giuliani Still Lobbying on the Side

This is everywhere today. From the Washington Post:

Ten months into his presidential bid, Rudolph W. Giuliani continues to work part time at the security consulting firm he promised to leave this past spring to focus on his pursuit of the Republican nomination.

Giuliani’s continuing involvement with a firm catering to corporate clients makes him unique among Republican contenders. It also complicates the task of separating his firm’s assets from his campaign spending.

Several of the firm’s employees do volunteer work for his campaign. And Giuliani did not decide until mid-June, six months after he entered the race, to bill his campaign for the cost of the security detail traveling with him on campaign trips; before then, the firm paid the expense.

Aides at Giuliani Partners in New York and with his campaign confirmed that he continues working part time at the firm. They declined to answer specific questions about the nature of his efforts, his compensation or the amount of time he spends there.

“Mayor Giuliani spends the majority of his time on the campaign,” Giuliani Partners spokeswoman Sunny Mindel said, declining to be more specific.

Federal election laws prohibit Giuliani’s firm from absorbing costs or providing services that legally should be covered by political donations, campaign experts said.

“This is a lawyer’s nightmare,” said Republican political consultant Scott Reed, who ran the 1996 presidential bid of then-Sen. Robert J. Dole (R-Kan.) but is not aligned with a presidential campaign in this race. “I don’t think the vulnerability is with voters on the level of his commitment to the race. The concern is really about FEC violations and whether anything this corporation does to help him essentially is making a contribution to run for president in the form of staff time, materials, travel billing or security.”

Strategically, this is a bad idea, for obvious reasons: if it won’t be brought up sooner, it will be brought up later to his detriment. It’s one thing to have lobbied in the past (Fred Thompson) or to have ties to lobbyists that other candidates try to capitalize on (Hillary Clinton). To actually run for President while still lobbying implies severe boldness on Giuliani’s part.

In the long run, this is probably his weakness. Not just lobbying in general, but being so arrogant as to continue lobbying through the campaign despite giving past assurances it will stop. You’re not going to hear the word “precaution” a lot around Giuliani.

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2008Central.net’s Presidential Election Podcast (10/29/07)

This podcast covers: (1) Poll craziness - Hillary Clinton and Mitt Romney; (2) Romney’s speech on faith; (3) Obama ratcheting up pressure on Clinton; (4) Consequences in Florida for DNC; (5) Chris Dodd on Meet The Press; (6) Tom Tancredo is not running for re-election; (7) Kucinich, Richardson and UFOs; (8) Edwards brings the hammer on UNC student reporter; (9) Mike Bloomberg buying Google AdWords; (10) and more…

Feel free to email us questions/suggestions for next week’s podcast (you can also email an audio file of your question and we’ll include it in the podcast).

Subscribe to 2008Central.net’s Presidential Election Podcast

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