VIDEO: McCain-Palin Interview on NBC

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2008Central.net Presidential Election Podcast (10/07/08)

This podcast provides analysis of the second presidential debate between Obama and McCain, which was held at Belmont University in Tennessee.

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In 1999 and 2000, John McCain Agreed With Obama on Pakistan and Democracy

Sen. Barack Obama last night:

Here’s what I said, and if John wants to disagree with this, he can let me know, that if the United States has al Qaeda, bin Laden, top-level lieutenants in our sights, and Pakistan is unable or unwilling to act, then we should take them out.

…

Now, Senator McCain is also right that it’s difficult. This is not an easy situation.

You’ve got cross-border attacks against U.S. troops, and we’ve got a choice. We could allow our troops to just be on the defensive and absorb those blows again and again and again if Pakistan is unwilling to cooperate, or we have to start making some decisions.

And the problem, John, with — with the strategy that’s been pursued was that for 10 years we coddled Musharraf; we alienated the Pakistani population because we were anti-democratic; we had a 20th century mind-set that basically said, well, you know, he may be a dictator, but he’s our dictator; and as a consequence, we lost legitimacy in Pakistan. We spent $10 billion. And in the meantime, they weren’t going after al Qaeda, and they are more powerful now than any time since we began the war in Afghanistan. That’s going to change when I’m president of the United States.

Sen. John McCain last night:

I don’t think that Senator Obama understands that there was a failed state in Pakistan when Musharraf came to power. Everybody who was around then and had been there and knew about it knew that it was a failed state.

The Union Leader, January 29, 2000 (Lexis):

McCain criticized the praise that followed last year’s military takeover in Pakistan, saying change should occur from within, not by force.

In remarks on October 18, 1999, John McCain did not indicate that Pakistan was a failed state, and highlighted the importance of democracy (Lexis):

North Korea was busy building nuclear weapons even though it was a signatory to the Nonproliferation Treaty. Other nuclear states — Pakistan and India — have not signed the CTBT and can also be expected to act in what their leaders perceive is their national interest.

The administration was caught flat-footed when India tested, but it strongly warned Pakistan not to follow suit, to no avail.

Equally absurd is to suggest that the most recent military coup in Pakistan is an example that things might happen in the absence of Senate ratification of an arms control agreement. The military has ruled Pakistan for half its history.

As the world’s leading democracy, we should support the restoration of civilian rule in Pakistan, but we should not automatically assume that the new regime will engage in nuclear brinksmanship with India. And the idea that the CTBT would have somehow affected tensions in the subcontinent is laughable. We surely have an interest in helping prevent a fourth Indian-Pakistani war. It is conceivable that such a war could go nuclear. The CTBT would have done precisely nothing to prevent that.

We should, as we have only in recent months, encourage a relaxation of tensions, especially with regard to the Kashmir flashpoint. The administration ignored this problem until India and Pakistan tested.

And as we urge the early restoration of democracy in Pakistan, we should do what we can to ensure the current military regime be moderate in its approach to its neighbor. First indications are that it might be more moderate than its democratic predecessor. Already, they have announced troop pullbacks from the border.

We should not isolate Pakistan, but encourage it to be pro- Western and reject Iran-style fundamentalism or Afghani chaos. Let’s not repeat the mistake of imposing the same kind of counterproductive sanctions we did after Pakistan tested.

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2008Central.net Presidential Election Podcast (09/26/08)

This podcast offers commentary and analysis about the first presidential debate about the economy and foreign policy between Barack Obama and John McCain at the University of Mississippi.

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First Presidential Election Debate Liveblog: From The University of Mississippi in Oxford

5:15: All times are Central. Deal with it, you coastal elites!

More on the University of Mississippi here. Fun fact: It was used as a hospital during the Civil War for both Union and Confederate soldiers. So there’s some bipartisanship. There’s no truth to the rumor that John McCain was there at that time, however. A must read about the civil rights history of the college is here. There’s no truth to the rumor that Barack Obama was the … uhm, named person in the headline there. Seriously, John McCain’s grandfather is one of the famous alumni of the college.

The moderator tonight is PBS’ Jim Lehrer. This is Lehrer’s record 11th time moderating a presidential debate, and his wiki page describes him as a bus enthusiast. So he’s got that going for him.

The format: two podiums. Sections of the debate will include introductory statements of two minutes, followed by five minutes of debate between the candidates. It’s a really nice format.

5:36: Mississippi is the state where Teddy Roosevelt refused to shoot a captured bear, enraging Stephen Colbert but capturing the heart of a nation. Nowadays, killing a moose is a qualification for national office. How times change!

5:53: Mississippi soda/pop fact: Mississippi is the birthplace of the Barq’s Root Beer. And also apparently the home of some very, very crazy ad wizards.

6:04: Ole Miss is in Oxford, in Lafayette County. In the county, Obama beat Clinton 2,849 to 2,171. John McCain won a virtually uncontested primary in the county with 1,953 votes (Huckabee received about 300 votes and Ron Paul less than 100 votes).

6:48: Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen is so concerned about the financial crisis that she’s talking on the House floor about Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his denunciations of Israel. I understand that Presidents have to have multiple things in their crossfire, but you would think that wouldn’t apply to the House. Especially in the middle of a crisis.

7:04: In the audience: a lot of students and the Washington elite.

7:11: Nate Silver has a good debate preview up.

7:14: Matt Yglesias asks if the debate itself will be in HD. It’s a good question. Angelo believes it will be. Confirmation: here.

7:17: A C-Span history of debates.

7:18: C-Span’s debate hub is awesome.

7:19: The largest airport in Mississippi, in Jackson, was renamed the Jackson-Evers International Airport to honor assassinated NAACP leader Medgar Evers.

7:23: Marc Ambinder’s preview is also worth reading.

7:27:This week in 1963: JFK becomes the first president to sleep overnight in Duluth. Thanks, PBS.

7:29: Listening to C-Span calls before a debate is excruciating. Supporters of either side are just grating.

7:31: Janet Brown, Executive Director of the Commission on Presidential Debates, starts off the speeches that are very unimportant, and meant only to stoke the egos of those who give them.

7:37: Frank Fahrenkopf chastises the crowd to not applaud or make any noise.

7:42: Should I be concerned that there’s been multiple listings of corporate sponsors? Or is that too 3rd party-sh of me?

7:43: THe University lost power because of an accident with an immigration line earlier today.

7:50: Michelle Obama is in the house.

7:51: Jim Lehrer is on the stage. He talks down to people who “volunteered or participated” in the primary debates. Let’s hope Hillary isn’t watching. He talks about needing “absolute concentration” and asks Cindy McCain and Michelle Obama to take names of whoever makes sound.

8:00: And away we go! Tom Brokaw says the “Reagan Democrat” is the voter both are courting. Jim Lehrer says he has not cleared his questions with anyone. Both candidates arive to the only applause of the night.

8:03: First question: Eisenhower talks about economic strength being the basis for military strength. Where do you stand on the economic recovery plan? Obama goes first. Talks about Main Street, and how his proposals protect the taxpayer. His four point plan: oversight, the possibility of getting the money back (equity), executive pay, and help to homeowners. Segues into a criticism of Republican financial policy, including deregulation, and including the phrase “trickle down.” McCain references Kennedy (who has since been released from the hospital, per Politico). McCain is talking to Lehrer, while Obama was addressing the American people. Odd distinction. He talks at length about the bipartisanship in Congress, and mentions accountability, options for loans, and “a number of other essential elements.” He then seems to try to side with House Republicans, who want something wholly different. He ends up with a reference to foreign oil. Obama mentions that “we haven’t seen the language yet” which is head scratching. Of course, Lehrer is referring to a plan that is being negotiated as we speak. I think he’s pressing a bit in the wrong direction. The key is what they think should be done, not really what they think about some abstract plan that no longer exists. Obama addressed that answer to Lehrer. McCain tells a story about Eisenhower and Normandy, and his willingness to resign if D-Day failed. He implies that Chris Cox should resign because he failed - but doesn’t say why. Obama says there must responsibility not just when there is a crisis, and talks about the problems before the crisis erupted last week. Funny moment: Obama refers to McCain saying the fundamentals of the economy are strong, and Lehrer makes him say it directly to McCain, who jokes that he could hear Obama the first time. McCain’s response: “We have fundamental problems in the system.” It’s pretty ridiculous, given his comments about the fundamentals of the economy. He finishes with an ode to the American worker that Lenin could have written. Time spent talking on this: directly even. To the second.

8:14: Second question: what differences to you have on the economy: McCain wants spending under control. Talks about earmarking as a gateway drug. The joke about bear DNA doesn’t get any laugh. He holds up a pen to veto and says “this one is kinda old.” He’s making the old person jokes himself. Yeesh. McCain criticizes Obama for making earmarks. Obama agrees that earmarks are abused, and often by lobbyists. Obama says earmarks cost 18 billion, but McCain is proposing 300 billion dollars worth of tax cuts to the rich. Obama is working overload to relate to the common man. McCain goes on again about the earmarks and the 18 billion dollars, and criticizes them for corrupting people. He mentions Obama’s 800 billion of new spending. Obama talks about his plans: closing corporate “loopholes,” health care spending, etc. Obama again says earmarks alone will not get the middle class “back on track.” McCain talks about the business tax being the second highest in the world, to get more businesses in America. He goes back to earmarks AGAIN, and he’s getting a little silly on the point. He talks about the tax cuts he wants to give everyone. Fact check: earmarks are only 0.63% of the federal budget. Obama talks about his tax cuts, and criticizes McCain for making health care benefits taxable. McCain jumps in, and criticizes Obama for … his vote on the Energy Bill. McCain only wants to talk about earmarks. I’m at a bit of a loss. Obama mentions the tax breaks, and criticizes mcCain for opposing the Energy Bill right now for the position on eliminating tax breaks for oil company.

8:26: Third question: what would you give up to pay for this recovery plan: Obama says it’s hard to say, but some things will have to be delayed. Talks about needing to get energy indepdence in ten years. That’s very, very optimistic. Also mentions health care, and deductibles going up 30%. Also mentions competing globally, specifically in education. Also mentions infrastructure, including roads and the energy grid. A certain viewer near Albany, NY likes the road shout out. McCain talks about needing to cut spending, criticizing Obama for having the most liberal record. McCain wants to end ethanol spending, and better bids for contracts for the military. McCain talks about knowing how to get defense spending under control. Lehrer wants to know what will delayed specifically. Obama talks about postponing parts of his energy plan, and 15 billion lost through Medicare. Mentions working with Tom Coburn setting up “Google for Government.” McCain wants a spending freeze on everything but Defense, Veterans, and “other important” areas. Obama says you need a scalpel, not a hatchet, mentioning the 79 billion dollar surplus of the Iraqi government. McCain wants 45 nuclear power plants, and gives an awkward climate change shout out to Sen. Clinton. Lehrer doesn’t like these answers, and tries again. Obama segues into a discussion about values, and talks about corporate tax cuts versus health care. McCain does not want health care handed to the federal government, and gives a variation on the Harry and Louise schtick. McCain goes back to spending, and talks about owing China $500 billion. That’s true, but not really the root of the problem as he implies. Obama refers to the “orgy of spending” under Bush and criticizes McCain for voting for Bush’s budgets.

8:38: What are the lessons of Iraq? McCain: You caannot have a failed strategy that causes you to lose. A little broad to me. Bad strategy is as old as warfare itself. McCain hugs the surge as much as he possibly could. Talks about “winning” in Iraq and “coming home with victory and honor.” This is about 100 degrees difference away from what Petraeus describes. HD update: Apparently they both look weird in HD. Obama talks about opposing the war from the start, and tells the same story about taking an unpopular position as McCain. Obama talks about being distracted from Afghanistan and Al Qaeda being resurgent. McCain talks about Obama saying that the surge failed, not going to Iraq, and not holding hearings on his subcommittee. Obama looks amused, and restates Biden saying that those things are held at full committee. Obama gives his own McCain quotes, including greeted as liberators and history between Shia and Sunni, leading it into a question of judgment. McCain says Obama does not understand the difference between a tactic and a strategy. McCain says Obama refuses to believe we are winning. He describes a strategy that sounds a whole lot like a tactic. It’s a strange distinction. McCain talks about Obama not funding the troops. Obama knocks it down quite easily, actually, saying that McCain and him both voted against bills for other reasons, and talks about at length about Afghanistan. McCain talks more about the surge and Petraeus, and says he knew the surge would succeed this much.

8:50: Should more troops be sent to Afghanistan? Obama: Send more troops ASAP, as per the commanders in the ground. Obama goes back to Afghanistan and says it cannot be separated. No mention of Pakistan thus far, except implicitly mentioning Al Qaeda “crossing the border.” Finally mentions Pakistan. Three points: More troops, deal with the poppy trade, and dealing with Pakistan. McCain talks about the Russians leaving and the rise of Al Qaeda and the Taliban. McCain says he is not prepared to cut off aid to Pakistan, and criticizes Obama for launching strikes, or rather, for saying it out loud - effectively admitting he would do the same thing but not say it out loud. He talks about Waziristan. McCain wants the Iraq strategy. But Iraq is urban warfare; Waziristan is remotte tribes. Building walls is pointless when there’s already mountains in between people. a WSJ article a long while ago made this point. (A GOP one I linked to before). Obama says it’s about having intelligence regarding Al Qaeda, and taking them out, and that McCain has made comments regarding extinghuishing AL Qaeda and singing songs about bombing Iran. Obama says that Musharraf was coddled and the policy was anti-democratic. McCain says there was a failed state when Musharraf came to power. McCain tries to defend his temperament, and defends himself by voting against troops going to Lebanon; supporting the Gulf War and going into Bosnia and Kosovo; he wanted the troops in Somalia to apparently do more “peace making force.” But the criticism was regarding his words, both originally from McCain and rebuttal from Obama. This is just a tangent regarding his record. He says if Iraq does not succeed, then lives are wasted; the logical implication is that the deaths in Vietnam and Somalia were in vain. Obama says no soldiers die in vain, and all service should be honored, but the question is regarding how to keep America safe. He criticizes McCain for saying America could “muddle through” Afghanistan. McCain criticizes Obama for not going to Afghanistan and not holding hearings again.

Discipline: McCain has oddly times smiles, as usual, but is otherwise OK. Obama seems pretty OK. No sighs so far. Lehrer says time is even.

8:50: What is the threat from Iran? McCain says there they propose an existential threat to Israel, and that there can never again be a Holocaust. McCain says a League of Democracies could take effective sanctions, mentioning the Germans, French, and British. He also mentions Iran infiltrating Iraq. Obama says the Republican Guard is a terrorist organization (and says he always said that) and said that the war in Iraq has strengthened Iran’s hand. Agrees that a nuclear Iran cannot be tolerated, both for Israel and to prevent an arms race in the Middle East. Obama says cooperation from states like Russia and China will be needed for sanctions to be effective. He talks about diplomacy. He says that efforts at isolation only accelerate efforts to get nuclear weapons. McCain talks about Ahmadinejad wanting to wipe Israel out, and not wanting to give him a propaganda platform. McCain talks about needing preconditions being necessary, citing Reagan and Nixon. Obama says even Kissinger wants America to meet with Iran. He cites Bush sending Bill Burns to talks with Iran, and admitting it may not work. Obama says that after cutting off talks with North Korea, nuclear work was quadrupled, and nuclear secrets were sent to Syria, and through talks progress was made, even if it is on shaky ground. He even mentions McCain not wanting to meet with the President of Spain. McCain says he will not set a visitor’s schedule. McCain says that without precondition, meeting with Ahmadinejad legitimizes comments about Israel. Obama pushes back on Israel, but McCain interrupts, and makes a joke about Obama not denying the words of Ahmadinejad.

9:16: Russia! What do you do, what -DO- you do? Obama says the relationship needs to be reevaluated, but that the actions in Georgia were unwarrented, and that the six point peace plan needs to be implemented. Talks abot needing to be supportive of fledging democracies, and expanding NATO to countries like Georgia. Also talks about expanding cooperation, specifically with loose nukes. McCain tries to hammer home that Obama doesn’t understand foreign relations, saying Obama’s first statement only called for restraint on both sides. McCain says he looked into Putin’s eyes and saw KGB. Not sure about that one. Talks about concern over resurgence of the Russian Empire. Says that Russia is in violation of the cease fire agreement. Obama tries to give a better framing of his position on Georgia, but widely agrees with McCain. Mentions the Georgian economy. He talks about how he warned about Russian peacekeepers in Georgia in April, but nothing was done. Obama says that an energy strategy is necessary to deal with not only Russia but also Venezuela and Iran. Mentions energy, including nuclear, wind, and clean coal. Talks about McCain voting against renewable energy. McCain also talks about Nunn-Lugar. Obama says that he’s just for storing nuclear waste carefully. He wants to make another point, but McCain talks over him and I can’t tell what either said.

9:25: What is the likelihood of another 9/11? McCain says it is much less than it was on 9/12. He mentions that he and Lieberman wanted to start the 9/11 Commission. He seems to be making the Richardson approach: that he personally knows a lot of things and can get things done because he knows how to do it. It’s not what he did in the primary. Obama says America is safer in some ways. He talks about chemical sites, ports, and transit. He circle back to nuclear proliferation and says it is the biggest threat to the United States. Says missile defense is necessary, but it is not more important than nuclear waste. Says Al Qaeda is operating in 60 countries, and the root cause is in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Says America’s standing in the world has been damaged, and work is needed to restore the standing as a city on a hill. McCain cites Reagan and missile defense, for some reason. He goes back to Obama “not understanding” and says if there is failure in Iraq, Al Qaeda will have a base there. Obama goes back to McCain and Bush focusing on Iraq, while Bin Laden is still out there, while seguing to Chin being involved around the world everywhere where America is not, and the ability to project power of America is hurt. Segues into a discussion of veterans, and that a broader strategic vision is necessary. McCain says that Obama does not have the experience of knowledge necessary to be president. He compares Obama’s stubbornness to that of Bush, and says Obama not admitting the surge succeeded is really bad. Obama mentions his father coming from Kenya, and wanting to come to America because of the standing of America in the world, and that this idea is important, and investing ni how ordinary people live out their dreams is important. McCain one ups that by talking about coming home from prison and normalizing relations with Vietnam.

That ends the debate. I’m going to ponder grades, but Lehrer gets an easy A. Well done.

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VIDEO: Presidential Debate Between Barack Obama and John McCain at the University of Mississippi (Ole Miss)

Tonight’s debate between John McCain and Barack Obama will begin at 9pm ET. The moderator will be PBS’ Jim Leher. The topic will be foreign policy (although, they will likely spend some time discussing the economy as well). Be sure to check out our blog on the debate or listen to our podcast as well…

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

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2008Central.net Presidential Election Podcast (09/24/08)

This podcast discusses the proposed legislation to bailout Wall Street, McCain suspending his campaign to return to Washington and his call to postpone this Friday’s debate, a debate preview and a discussion of foreign policy issues (both obvious and not so obvious), and more…

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Morning Potpourri: Obama/Bill, and Palin’s Interview

First up, a little old school Bill Clinton.

John F. Harris of Politico writes:

It is not at all clear that Barack Obama particularly wants Clinton’s advice about how to win the presidency—after all, he kept the former president at a cool distance, with just occasional phone calls, for months—but many Democrats believe it is increasingly clear that he could use it.

Meanwhile, Adam Nagourney and Jeff Zeleny write in the NYT (my emphasis):

One adjustment for the Obama campaign comes as Mr. McCain is seeking to claim the Democrats’ theme of change by pointing to Ms. Palin. For months, advisers to Mr. Obama had assumed that Mr. McCain would play up his experience; Mr. Plouffe said he welcomed what he argued would be a campaign fought out on the issue of change.

“This is a very major development,” Mr. Plouffe said. “John McCain jettisoned his message and his strategy. It is now about change. We’re going to lean into that very, very hard.”

In the midst of all this, Mr. Obama had a private lunch on Thursday with someone he battled with for much of the year but who knows how to put the Republicans on the defensive: former President Bill Clinton. Discussion topics, aides said, included how Mr. Obama might handle Ms. Palin in the days ahead.

I think the conclusion is not only does Obama want to confer with President Clinton regarding at least some campaign strategy, but he also wants people to know he’s doing it. (That may be because Bill Clinton’s staff is notorious for leaking, of course.) Knowing Bill, he’ll give some good advice to Obama. I think you’ll see a stronger Obama in the next week, in part due to Bill. He statement yesterday that Obama would win big was a great start, tactically.

Second thing is the interesting Sarah Palin interview. I choose interesting, because the only other word I can think of is shockingly lacking. Howard Wolfson gives his thoughts:

Her answers to a fairly basic set of foreign policy questions were formulaic and unimpressive. She didn’t say anything disqualifying, but it is unlikely that anyone watching would have come away sanguine about her ability to step in as President on Day One if necessary.

This would not have surprised the McCain campaign. They were no doubt aware before yesterday of Gov. Palin’s abilities as a candidate. She gives a strong speech, has a compelling bio, and tells a good story about her record — but if last night is any indication, lengthy interviews about policy are not her strong suit.

Don’t expect to see her do many more. The risk/reward calculus here is not complicated. The McCain campaign knows they will pay a price for keeping Gov. Palin from the national press — but they also know that price is worth paying if it buys them insurance against her giving a disqualifying answer to a legitmate question.

There’s two answers I want to highlight in particular. One is her apparent botching of the Bush Doctrine. She clearly did not know what “Bush Doctrine” meant, but unlike almost everyone on the left, I don’t see that as a big problem: she clearly knew about the general direction of the doctrine. I was more surprised in the manner she 1) misinterpreted the first priority of the President and 2) flippantly used the word imminent. Again, my emphasis:

GIBSON: Do you agree with the Bush doctrine?

PALIN: In what respect, Charlie?

GIBSON: The Bush — well, what do you — what do you interpret it to be?

PALIN: His world view.

GIBSON: No, the Bush doctrine, enunciated September 2002, before the Iraq war.

PALIN: I believe that what President Bush has attempted to do is rid this world of Islamic extremism, terrorists who are hell bent on destroying our nation. There have been blunders along the way, though. There have been mistakes made. And with new leadership, and that’s the beauty of American elections, of course, and democracy, is with new leadership comes opportunity to do things better.

GIBSON: The Bush doctrine, as I understand it, is that we have the right of anticipatory self-defense, that we have the right to a preemptive strike against any other country that we think is going to attack us. Do you agree with that?

PALIN: I agree that a president’s job, when they swear in their oath to uphold our Constitution, their top priority is to defend the United States of America.

I know that John McCain will do that and I, as his vice president, families we are blessed with that vote of the American people and are elected to serve and are sworn in on January 20, that will be our top priority is to defend the American people.

GIBSON: Do we have a right to anticipatory self-defense? Do we have a right to make a preemptive strike again another country if we feel that country might strike us?

PALIN: Charlie, if there is legitimate and enough intelligence that tells us that a strike is imminent against American people, we have every right to defend our country. In fact, the president has the obligation, the duty to defend.

First, as Andres Sullivan rightly notes, the President and Vice-President take oaths first and foremost to defend the Constitution, not to protect people. I don’t consider that s trivial difference either.

Second, her use of the word imminent is misleading to the point of being deceitful. The entire debate regarding the Bush Doctrine was how imminent an attack had to be in order to justify an attack. Take Barack Obama’s 2002 speech against the war. The key line of the entire speech:

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

There are perhaps elements of the fringe left or isolationist right who would be against repelling even an imminent threat, but that’s not the controversy surrounding the Bush Doctrine whatsoever. Obama himself tacitly admitted the Iraq war would be justified if Iraq was an imminent threat. That also makes the screeching from conservative quarters over this issue ring hollow. They all miss this portion of the question and focus more on the first part. That part looks bad, but substantively seems like something of a wash to me. Her flippant use of the word imminent implies something much, much worse: it suggests either that she still thinks Saddam had WMDs and was ready to use or distribute them; she thinks that Iraq was behind 9/11; that that Iraq would have somehow other threatened the United States in some imminent way had the US not invaded; or that she simply doesn’t know. Of course, the other option is that she’s qualifying her phrase with the term imminent despite the fact that she knows a threat was in no way imminent, or to make McCain’s policies seem more reasonable than they are. But I’ll take her at her word.

The last answer of hers I want to look at is her answer on Pakistan:

GIBSON: Do we have the right to be making cross-border attacks into Pakistan from Afghanistan, with or without the approval of the Pakistani government?

PALIN: Now, as for our right to invade, we’re going to work with these countries, building new relationships, working with existing allies, but forging new, also, in order to, Charlie, get to a point in this world where war is not going to be a first option. In fact, war has got to be, a military strike, a last option.

GIBSON: But, Governor, I’m asking you: We have the right, in your mind, to go across the border with or without the approval of the Pakistani government.

PALIN: In order to stop Islamic extremists, those terrorists who would seek to destroy America and our allies, we must do whatever it takes and we must not blink, Charlie, in making those tough decisions of where we go and even who we target.

GIBSON: And let me finish with this. I got lost in a blizzard of words there. Is that a yes? That you think we have the right to go across the border with or without the approval of the Pakistani government, to go after terrorists who are in the Waziristan area?

PALIN: I believe that America has to exercise all options in order to stop the terrorists who are hell bent on destroying America and our allies. We have got to have all options out there on the table.

This is another troubling answer. Not, again, for the surface answers. Saying everything is on the table is a safe and nice way to avoid controversy, even if your running mate called the policy “naive” last year when your opponent suggested it. (Welcome to America: agreeing with your opponent on an issue your running mate called “naive” is the safe answer. Mostly because McCain’s initial answer was terrible, and no one bats an eye if you say you want all options on the table.)

The problem with Palin’s answer on Pakistan and Afghanistan is that is shows that she does not understand the difference at all between the wars, thinking that importing the surge strategy to Afghanistan will solve the problems. (Both McCain and Obama are already for more troops in Afghanistan).

I think I can make my point best by citing a post criticizing Obama’s plan for Afghanistan on Powerline (since Palin wants to apparently embrace it it means she embraces the criticisms too):

For the reasons you cite the answer is not more US troops. The circumstance are different and, to use Obama’s word, nuance is important. (as an aside, isn’t Obama’s prescription for Afghanistan — a surge — at least an implicit admission that he believes the surge in Iraq is effective? If not, where did he get the idea?)

Unlike Iraq, control of the cities is not the problem in Afghanistan. Afghanistan is HUGE. Bigger than Iraq. We just don’t have the troops to do in Afghanistan what we did in Iraq, even if we weren’t in Iraq. Rather it’s the lawlessness in the hinterlands that is the problem. Regular Army doesn’t get you much there. We need to bolster Afghan security forces and dismantle enemy networks, not control territory (i.e., it’s a special forces mission).

The root causes of the trouble in Afghanistan are twofold: (1) the slow (and frightening!) disintegration of Pakistan and (2) Iran’s alliance with the Taliban. Pakistan can’t control its border or northwest territories. This gives the Taliban and AQ a free area to operate and a porous border that they can cross to attack US troops. Just as troubling, Iran is training and equipping the Taliban with even more deadly tactics and weapons. Of note is that the Taliban has begun employing the same deadly EFPs that Sadr’s goons use against US troops in Iraq.

On the other hand, it appears that Robert Gates is preparing to transfer more troops to Afghanistan.

But the point is not just more troops or less troops: the point is that, as evidenced above and as Charlie Gibson himself said, the root the problems in Afghanistan go far beyond merely being able to be solved by more troops. The logical conclusion of this is that Sarah Palin knows little to nothing about Pakistan and Afghanistan. Say what you will about Obama, Biden, and McCain, but they all discussed the various pros and cons of the situation in various debates and interviews at some point. Even the Bush Administration is now authorizing more actions across the border. If the commander in chief does not understand what is going on on the ground, they will either get overriden badly by the generals, they will overrule the generals based on their own baseless impulses, or more likely, they will decide fights among the generals arbitrarily and politically, with no good long term sense or appreciation for the bigger picture.

I think there’s serious limits on how much someone not receiving intelligence reports should be expected to know about foreign policy, even amongst presidential candidates. But that bar is still exceptionally high, and Palin did not come close to passing it. She’s lucky the gaffes are not - so far - more obvious to the common man.

One more thing.

Palin yesterday:

We end war when we see victory, and we do see victory in sight in Iraq.

Petraeus yesterday:

“This is not the sort of struggle where you take a hill, plant the flag and go home to a victory parade… it’s not war with a simple slogan.”

That’s just bad luck, really.

One Extra Last Thing That I Really Mean This Time:

You know someone is stretching for an argument when they compare the complexity of the Bush Doctrine to the complexity of …. the Constitution. Come on. Let’s get back to the real world.

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RNC Live Blog - Day 3: Including Gov. Sarah Palin, Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, Mitt Romney

And we’re off…

[All times are Central]

7:56: Michael Steele takes the stage (no, he’s not the guy that Pierce Brosnon played, he’s the former Lt. Governor of Maryland).  He announces that they are not gathering tonight as Republicans, but as Americans.  It’s statements like this that really frustrate me about politics.  This is a party convention, for the purpose of selecting a party nominee.  This is not an event that’s intended to be inclusive of all Americans, rather, it’s for the Republicans, just like the Democratic Convention was for the Democrats.  Just saying…

8:00: Talks about the importance of putting country first.  Then, he talks about education vouchers.  Huh?  Now, he talks about less taxes and less dependency on foreign oil by promoting oil and gas production at home.  He says what is likely the awkward line of the line, not so much for the statement itself but the tone: “Let me make this clear, drill baby, drill.”  The crowd begins to chant “drill baby, drill.”

8:03: He concludes by saying that in order to put country first, then McCain and Palin need to be elected.  Hmm, it was my understanding that tonight wasn’t about Republicans.  I guess that’s not the case anymore?

8:06: Mitt Romney takes the stage.

8:07: He says that in order to bring change to Washington, Washington is going to have to stop looking to northeast elites like the New York Times editorial board and TV anchors, and instead, needs to look west to McCain and Palin.

8:08: Romney says that Washington is currently liberal and in order to bring a real change, it is necessary to elect a conservative.

8:11: Mentions the need to fight pornography in schools.  I’m not currently aware that this is a major problem.  Oh well.

8:13: Mitt Romney’s suggestion for energy conservation: a cute joke about keeping Al Gore’s private jet on the ground.

8:16: Says, “Just like you, there was never a day when I was not proud to be an American.”  Also says that he believes by the providence of god that the GOP will succeed in the November and that McCain will be elected.

8:19: Refrain from the song currently playing, “If you’re going to hell, keep on going.”  I’m honestly confused.  Why exactly would one want to rush to hell?

8:26: Mike Huckabee takes the stage.

8:27: Thanks the “elite media” for unifying the Republican Party.  Then proceeds to attack the press coverage the past few days.

8:30: So far, Huckabee’s speech is pretty good.  It’s empathic about economic issues and ties it into his personal background (which was impoverished).

8:34: Huckabee says that Palin received more votes runing for the Mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden received during this run for president.  This is patently false (I just fact checked it myself).

9:01: Okay, it’s Rudy time…

9:03: Tells undecided votes to imagine that they are hiring someone to do a very important job.  They have two applications to choose from, no names or party affiliations.  Both applicants are patriotic with intersting backgrounds.  On the one hand, you have one man that dedicated himself to service of the United States and has passed very test that life through at him.  “On the other hand, you have a resume from a gifted man with an Ivy League education, who worked as a community organizer.” (The crowd erupts in laughter at that point).  Then proceeds to hit Obama on voting present 136 times while he was a state senator.  Follows up by attacking his lack of experience.  Says that this is no time for on the job training. I’m confused as to how the GOP is willing to make this argument given Sarah Palin’s lack of experience.

9:15:  Says that McCain will keep us on offense against terorism.

9:16: Says that Democrats don’t like to say the word “Islamic terrorism” because they are afraid - afraid of insulting someone.  Adds that when you say it, you are only insulting the terrorists.  Look, we’re fair, we’re nonpartisan.  This is just an incredibly dumb statement that really has no bearing on the election and has an incredibly weak factual foundation.

9:19: Criticized Obama for not taking public finacing.  Then says that Obama was against wire tapping before he voted against it.  *sigh* At the risk of sounding like some Obama apologist, which I definitely am not (see my scathing critique of Obama over his FISA vote), but Giuliani’s line here about wire tapping is yet again completely misleading.  The issue wasn’t about wiretapping, it was about immunity for telecom companies.  Look, either Giuliani doesn’t understand this or he’s intentionally deceiving listeners.  And since it’s Giuliani, and he’s a tough New Yorker and feels the need to use a little New Yawk speak, I’ll break this down: Either, Giuliani is dumb and doesn’t understand what the FISA issue was or he’s flat out lying.

9:30: Sarah Palin takes the stage…

9:35: Mentions her son’s upcoming departure for Iraq on 9/11.

9:40: She’s still giving shout outs to family members.

9:42: “What’s the difference between a hockey mom and a bull? Lipstick.”

9:43: Just noticed that Pali is wearing a flag pin on her collar, but not an American flag pin … and Israeli flag pin.  Interesting…

9:57: Attacks Obama for being worried that someone won’t read “terrorists who are plotting catostrophic attacks on America” their rights.

9:58: Says that Obama supports plan to raise taxes across the board.  And will increase the tax burden on Americans by hundreds of billions of dollars.

10:04: Says that the presidency is not a venue for personal discovery.  I’m still not sure how she is able to sincerely criticize Obama on the experience issue given her own shortcomings in the department.  It’s truly confusing for me.

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Today’s Must Read: Hersh Article On Iran

At the moment, the economy may be the number one issue, however, it won’t be the only thing that gets attention for the rest of the summer.  At some point, the subject of Iran will take center stage for a while.  That said, Seymour Hersh has an excellent article in the New Yorker on the subject that is definitely worth a read.

I’ve excerpted some of the more interesting bits of information especially those that have a relation to election politics…

On the Democratic congress supporting the Bush administration’s decision to increase clandestine military operations against Iran:

In other words, some members of the Democratic leadership—Congress has been under Democratic control since the 2006 elections—were willing, in secret, to go along with the Administration in expanding covert activities directed at Iran, while the Party’s presumptive candidate for President, Barack Obama, has said that he favors direct talks and diplomacy.

Secretary gates discussing the consequences of a preemptive strike:

A Democratic senator told me that, late last year, in an off-the-record lunch meeting, Secretary of Defense Gates met with the Democratic caucus in the Senate. (Such meetings are held regularly.) Gates warned of the consequences if the Bush Administration staged a preëmptive strike on Iran, saying, as the senator recalled, “We’ll create generations of jihadists, and our grandchildren will be battling our enemies here in America.”

A commentary on how the Democrats in Congress are doing:

The Democratic leadership’s agreement to commit hundreds of millions of dollars for more secret operations in Iran was remarkable, given the general concerns of officials like Gates, Fallon, and many others. “The oversight process has not kept pace—it’s been coöpted” by the Administration, the person familiar with the contents of the Finding said. “The process is broken, and this is dangerous stuff we’re authorizing.”

And some closing thoughts on the subject:

There is another complication: American Presidential politics. Barack Obama has said that, if elected, he would begin talks with Iran with no “self-defeating” preconditions (although only after diplomatic groundwork had been laid). That position has been vigorously criticized by John McCain. The Washington Post recently quoted Randy Scheunemann, the McCain campaign’s national-security director, as stating that McCain supports the White House’s position, and that the program be suspended before talks begin. What Obama is proposing, Scheunemann said, “is unilateral cowboy summitry.”

Scheunemann, who is known as a neoconservative, is also the McCain campaign’s most important channel of communication with the White House. He is a friend of David Addington, Dick Cheney’s chief of staff. I have heard differing accounts of Scheunemann’s influence with McCain; though some close to the McCain campaign talk about him as a possible national-security adviser, others say he is someone who isn’t taken seriously while “telling Cheney and others what they want to hear,” as a senior McCain adviser put it.

Between McCain singing bomb Iran earlier in 2007 and Obama getting some criticism for his statements on negotiations, the topics discussed in Hersh’s article will become a factor at some point later in the election, one way or another.

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2008Central.net Presidential Election Podcast (06/24/08)

John and Angelo are back and will be recording podcasts several times a week now.  This podcast covers (1) Obama’s ‘get over it’ statement and (2) McCain staffer Charles Black’s comments to Fortune Magazine regarding who would benefit from a terrorist attack.

[Subscribe to 2008Central.net's Presidential Election Podcast]

Feel free to email us questions/suggestions for our next podcast (you can also email an audio file of your question and we’ll include it in the podcast).

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Don’t Look Now, But…

Barack Obama just bet his campaign that Bin Laden will not get caught before the election. And Drudge knows it.

I suppose I don’t need to remind anyone of the Saddam capture in 2004?

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Weekend Briefing (April 27, 2008)

Here’s what’s news this weekend…

• Rush Limbaugh is raising hairs for his suggestion and later clarification about his call (or desire) for there to be riots at this year’s Democratic Convention similar to the riots in 1968.
• Hillary Clinton calls for a Lincoln-Douglas style debate between her and Barack Obama.  The debate would be 90 minutes, no moderators, just the two candidates in a free flowing one-on-one discussion.  The Obama Campaign quickly and flatly rejected the idea.
• Yesterday was the White House Correspondence Dinner.  You can watch President Bush’s speech here (it was pretty funny).
• On a blogger call, McCain portrays Obama as the candidate of Hamas, saying:
  

  I think it’s very clear who Hamas wants to be the next president of the United States. So apparently has Danny Ortega and several others. I think that people should understand that I will be Hamas’s worst nightmare….If senator Obama is favored by Hamas I think people can make judgments accordingly.

  Joe Klein responds to McCain’s suggestion here.

• A look at some of HRC’s foreign policy stumbles coupled with the complaint that the press is underreporting an issue to support their narrative.  The press…underreport something?  *shock*

More to come, feel free to submit suggestions…

 

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Will Democrats Surrender to Terrorists? You Be The Judge!

Not even conservative Republicans agree.

Rush Limbaugh on Monday:

On Mr. Limbaugh’s program today, he said people should not be rushing to back Mr. McCain over issues of national security. The talk host said America’s direction in Iraq would not be substantially different even if Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama were elected. “They are not going to surrender the country to Islamic radicalism or the war in Iraq,” Mr. Limbaugh said after mentioning the two Democratic senators by name. “They are not going to do that to themselves, despite what their base says.”

“The idea that we’ve only got one person in this whole roster of candidates, either party, who is willing to take on the war on terror is frankly, absurd,” Mr. Limbaugh said.

Mitt Romney on Thursday as he bowed out:

I disagree with Senator McCain on a number of issues, as you know. But I agree with him on doing whatever it takes to be successful in Iraq, on finding and executing Osama bin Laden, and on eliminating Al Qaeda and terror. If I fight on in my campaign, all the way to the convention, I would forestall the launch of a national campaign and make it more likely that Senator Clinton or Obama would win. And in this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign, be a part of aiding a surrender to terror.

This is not an easy decision for me. I hate to lose. My family, my friends and our supporters… many of you right here in this room… have given a great deal to get me where I have a shot at becoming President. If this were only about me, I would go on. But I entered this race because I love America, and because I love America, I feel I must now stand aside, for our party and for our country.

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Live Blog Of CNN / LA Times / Politico Republican Debate In California (January 30, 2008)

[NOTE: If you're looking for coverage of the CNN/LA Times/Politico Democratic Debate in California between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, you can find our live blog of that debate here]

Tonight is the CNN/Los Angeles/Politico Republican Debate at the Ronald Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California. It will begin at 8pm est and will air on CNN and will stream live at both CNN and LA Times‘ websites. The participating candidates will be Mitt Romney, John McCain, Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul.

7:45: 15 minutes to go. I’m not sure what the seating locations will be yet, but I do know that McCain’s staffer won the first pick for location on the stage and had to call back to headquarters to confirm the location.

7:49: Format: No rules, No time limits. I guess ever since Wolf Blitzer threw out the rules at the last debate, CNN’s just decided to really go wild.

7:58: Lou Dobbs is expressing outrage (not necessarily about anything specific…just outrage…he wants you to know that he’s very disturbed).

8:00: And here we go! Anderson Cooper begins with a history lesson about the room they’re in. Usually, I’m opposed to these kind of explanatory intros, but given the fact that the debate is being held under the old Air Force One, I can understand the need to explain what the deal with the plane is.

8:03: First question, are Americans better off now than they were 8 years ago? Mitt Romney says that that’s a question for President Bush, then launches into defense of his record in Mass. Anderson Cooper gets indignant and wants an answer, Romney shows viewers that he’s able to stand up to Anderson Cooper, but does offer some discussion of the problems he sees in America now.

8:06: McCain says he’ll bring some straight talk, offers a bit of gloom and then talks about making the Bush tax cuts permanent. McCain states that he believes Americans are better off now than they were 8 years ago, if you look at everything.

8:07: Huckabee plainly states that he doesn’t think we’re better off now than we were 8 years ago, states that the President isn’t solely responsible, so is the congress. Huckabee says that Americans want someone that is honest and straight with them. I wonder if he’s aware that McCain already has that catchphrase locked up?

8:09: Paul states the problems are caused by foreign policy and we must acknowledge that those policies need to come to an end.

8:12: Romney takes a shot at McCain’s conservatism by noting McCain’s NY Times endorsement. McCain reminds Romney that both of Romney’s hometown papers, which know him best, endorsed him over Romney. Ouch. McCain continues to talk up his conservatism by mentioning some people that support him.

8:15: Romney defends his record on job growth by noting that some of the negative data on job growth included a time period under the former Governor. He also explains the fee increases under his administration. Romney also touts the work he did on health care and notes that when he left there was a balanced budget and a small surplus.

8:18: Huckabee talks conservatism: lower taxes, streamlining the government, amendment banning gay marriage and a life amendment. Something about these, “who is more conservative” questions seem sort of pointless at some point.

8:21: McCain is asked about Gov. Schwarzenegger’s environmental law proposals, which are much different than the steps that the Bush Administration would take towards combating climate change. Given the impending endorsement for Arnold, obviously McCain needs to tread lightly and he does. He responds by noting that he believes in federalism, which has really turned into code for “I won’t force you to do something. Please don’t shy away from me because of this issue.” McCain then gives his oft used version of Pascal’s Wager for support of green technology.

8:25: Romney says that he supports states’ rights to control and regulate their own emissions. Huckabee then tries to explain why Federalism is good, he then goes on to state that Alexander Hamilton was wrong. Uhhhh….he’s having a difficult enough time staying in this race against Romney, McCain and Paul…I’m pretty sure injecting Hamilton into this race would only make it worse for him. *sigh*

8:29: Paul asks for some time to discuss and issue and Cooper denies him. For a debate that wasn’t really supposed to have rules, Anderson Cooper seems awfully indignant.

8:33: Talk turns to the economy…excuse me while I relocate to the top floor of my building, preferably a seat near the edge…

8:35: On the economic stimulus: McCain says that we will probably need more. Wow! This is like saying that we need more puppies, fluffier pillows or locations that have Coke Zero available from the fountain.

8:36: McCain is challenged on his initial opposition to Bush’s tax cuts on the grounds that they favored the rich too much. McCain states that he was a foot soldier in the Reagan revolution…then proceeds with obfuscation.

8:40: The topic changes to immigration. Huckabee thinks we need to secure the border. He says that two things need to happen in order to do that: 1) build border fence and 2) all current illegal immigrants will need to go back to their home countries and wait in line. Ultimately, Huckabee thinks this is the most compassionate and kind thing…

8:41: Romney is asked about his statement that most illegal immigrants could be deported within 90 days. He didn’t initially recall saying it, and the questioner offered him the quote. Romney talks about being courteous deportation. For example, if the family has a child in school, you let the child finish that school year first. Romney reemphasizes he would not allow illegal immigrants to remain here permanently, then suggests that McCain’s legislation would have allowed for such a thing.

8:44: McCain is asked if his legislation were to come to the floor of the Senate today, and he states that it won’t happen. After being pressed, he states that he would not vote for it because it’s clear that people want the borders to be secured first. It seems somewhat inconsistent for McCain to tout sticking to his principles and ignoring the majority on Iraq…yet, so freely acknowledging deference to the will of the American people on the immigration issue.

8:47: Huckabee is asked if Reagan’s appointment of O’Connor was the right call. He won’t answer the question, but then launches into a discussion of why it’s important to support life and how he would want judges that were pro-life. Ron Paul is given a chance to respond, he says he wouldn’t have nominated her because of her view towards the constitution. Both McCain and Romney dodge the question and instead state the types of judges they would appoint. In a bold move, McCain cites Alito and Roberts as examples of the kinds of conservative judges he’d support. Romny ups the ante and cites Alito, Roberts, Thomas and Scalia as the type of conservative judges he would nominate (Yea, that’s right, take that John McCain). Then, stupidly, Romney takes a shot at O’Connor for apparently not following the Constitution enough and for legislating from the bench. I don’t care if you’re a Republican, Democrat, hardcore liberal or conservative, if you think Justice O’Connor was a bad Justice, then you’re either completely uninformed or completely incapable of making evaluations. Sheesh, and I thought Huckabee was going to take home the award for baseless attacks on historical figures (yes, I know O’Connor’s still alive, but she’s done enough to be part of history).

8:57: And we’re back. Maybe, they’ll finally include Ron Paul in this last half hour.

8:58: Romney is asked about Peggy Noonan’s contention that George W. Bush destroyed the Republican party. Romney states that George W. Bush showed everyone that when America is attacked, we’ll respond. Uhhhh….is that really the best defense he could give?

9:00: Romney promises success in Iraq, which he defines as no safe havens for terrorists in Iraq. He strongly stated that he does not have a date for withdrawal and does not support a timetable. He accuses McCain of being un-Reagan like by raising the issue before the Florida primary and indicates that it may explain the results of Florida.

9:03: McCain reiterates his argument by reading the quote to Romney. Romney asks him what it means. Romney continues to try and defend himself. The audience seems to be on Romney’s side on this issue. Romney and McCain bicker. McCain’s tone during this exchange, reminds me of my grandfather’s tone when we were having an argument about cathode ray tubes once (he used to be an engineer).

9:06: Anderson Cooper regains control, unfortunately, it required his blue steel look in order to calm things down. Cooper asks Romney why he wouldn’t comment explicitly on the surge back in 2006 as he was preparing to announce his run. Romney is mad and accuses McCain of “Washington style” politics.

9:08: McCain responds to the Washington style politics line, by reminding Romney of the negative ads he used against him and Huckabee. He also reminded everyone that Romney used millions of his own dollars in his campaign so far.

9:10: Paul is asked about McCain’s line that we could be fighting in Iraq for the next 100 years. So let me get this straight, the rare chance they include Paul, it’s to ask him a question about John McCain? Paul states that both Romney and McCain are parsing over minor details of the same general policy - both supported going in and both support continuing the war. Paul’s gotten the loudest cheers so far.

9:12: Anderson Cooper asks Huckabee the same question given to Paul. Huckabee complains about not getting time and questions. Then casually says in regards to the 100 year fighting line, “oh it doesn’t take that long.” Then goes on to say that he’ll stay however long it takes to win.

9:13: Huckabee is asked what he sees when he looks int Putin’s eyes. Huckabee states that Putin has taken actions that lead to concern and that we need to have a foreign policy that emphasizes strength. Advocates a stronger military, you know, for deterrence. Is he actually arguing that a return to mutually assured destruction is the only viable foreign policy vis-a-vis Russia at this point? *sigh*

9:17: Romney explains geopolitics: Russia using energy to control policy, China “the wild west of energy” using energy and giving nuclear power to influence policy, Al Qaeda using terrorism to influence policy and the USA, which stands for free enterprise and freedom of the individual. I don’t even know how to respond to this painfully oversimplified explanation of geopolitics. However, would Romney’s analogy make Chris Patten the Wyatt Earp of China? I think so. But aside from that, Romney didn’t even discuss the topic (that he himself said he’d address), which was how he’d deal with Russia.

9:21: Romney’s argument: people ultimately look to Governors and not Senators to lead this country. He was a governor, ipso facto, he should be the next leader. Aside from that, he worked in the private sector, and then goes on his economic argument rant…

9:23: Romney is asked why he’s more qualified to be Commander-in-Chief than McCain. Romney doesn’t believe you need military experience to be Commander-in-Chief. Romney says that he prefers chess to checkers (I’m serious).

9:24: McCain responds, takes an irrelevant shot at Romney for having led corporations that fired people. Another ouch. McCain mentions Tom Ridge for the second time this evening.

9:25: Ron Paul states that these people don’t understand that the President isn’t supposed to run the economy and reminds everyone of that fact. Paul then discusses the monetary system. Paul’s discussion of substance causes Andersoon Cooper to become impatient.

9:28: Huckabee complains more about time. Then talks about less government and why it’s important. He states that governors are good presidents because they understand that no issue is isolated..that everything is connected. Metakuya Oyasin.

9:30: Anderson Cooper graciously gives all of the candidates 1 minute to explain why Ronald Reagan would endorse them. This is an appalling question for several reasons, none the least of which is Nancy Reagan’s presence in the first row.

9:31: Mitt Romney says Ronald Reagan would support him because he’d lower taxes. McCain says that Reagan wouldn’t support someone that changes positions and that Regan would support him because he held firm on Iraq and because he was a foot soldier in the Reagan Revolution.

9:32: Ron Paul talked about how he supported Reagan in 1976, when only 4 other members of congress did and how Reagan campaigned with him. He states that Reagan was very sympathetic to the gold standard (an issue that Ron Paul is very much in favor of).

9:33: Huckabee doesn’t presume to know who Reagan would endorse. Then speaks to the goodness of Reagan and how it’s important to recapture that can do spirit.

9:34: And we’re done.

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Live Blog of South Carolina CNN / CBC Democratic Debate (January 21, 2007)

5:51: The debate starts at 8 pm tonight on CNN. It’s been a yin/yang sort of day, with the candidates making nice over Martin Luther King while Obama calls Bill Clinton a liar, more or less. Lucky us, we have master of the subtle Wolf Blitzer to guide us through the minefield. Also, note that Clinton might be pressed on reports that she’s not going to be back in South Carolina after tonight until Friday.

5:59: One other thing; thankfully, we’re Kucinich-free tonight as well. He’s not a viable contender at this point, so spare me the whining.

7:40: Back. To commenters, the debate is streaming on cnn.com. Right now Howard Dean is addressing the audience. Presumably, he’s not scheming to steal their delegates. (But he also is not addressing a silly emerging controversy that is completely his fault.)

7:42: Rules of the debate. Apparently the Secret Service did not allow any cell phones or pagers into the building. CNN is also excited to show America the candidates walking onto the stage, citing transparency. Hey, they’re CNN, they do dumb crap like show candidates walking instead of debating or talking policy. The first half of the debate is a podium debate with rules, and the second half is candidates seated with ‘no rules’! CNN is sadly excited about having no rules (if they are so excited, why not do the whole debate in that format?).

7:46: CNN cannot find Wolf. I’m serious. With any luck, he’s lost and we’ll get a real moderator.

7:47: CNN presses for applause on 40 members of Congress showing up. Well, they’re not busy doing anything else, there’s no excuse to not be there.

7:48: The CNN Washington Bureau Chief says his Blackberry is going off, and a disembodied voice demands that he get applause; he’s run out of things to talk about, and a member of the audience demands he start telling jokes.

7:50: They found Blitzer. Damnit.

7:52: Blitzer says it is fun, and his fourth debate. He introduces himself. Regarding his name, he “did not make it up for the first Gulf War” and it is his real name. This is absurd.

7:54: This is a two and a half hour debate? What the hell? I’m betting 65% of it is pointless. Blitzer says it’s not easy, and he’s right; picking out inane topics to fill so much time is a tough job. Blitzer is concerned and has a guy ‘fix him’ to ‘make sure he looks good.’ He asks the audienceif they have any questions, and they demand to know where he was; he laughs it off, which is emblematic of the whole program.

7:57: Joe Johns and Suzanne Malvaeux are there. Blitzer says he always saw Malvaeux covering ’some ugly story in Washington’ every night. Good to know his true opinions of Washington, apparently.

7:59: Disembodied British voice congratulates me on watching the process, whatever that means. I feel like I’m watching dirty laundry, if that makes any sense.

8:00: If there are no rules in the second half, can Dennis Kucinich wander up on stage? CNN is really pushing no rules, but at the same time, half of the debate has the same rules they’re criticizing.

Alright, we’re actually starting, apparently.

8:01: It’s Martin Luther King Jr. holiday, Wolf tells me. He announces the candidates are not on stage, but the press pool is. Thanks, Wolfman. Edwards is introduced first, Obama second (to slightly louder cheers than Edwards, whom he gives a half hug to), and Clinton (to regular cheers). She loudly welcomes Barack, John, and Wolf by name. No half hug for Hillary.

8:03: Clyburn in the house, as Malveaux says people want substance. Well, no shit sherlock. But we’re watching people takes pictures of people hugging.

8:04: You can’t have a moment of inactivity without Dean popping back up onstage. Joe Johns says people want to know who is on the ballot. Groundbreaking analysis from the best political team on television, or meaningless drivel? You be the judge!

The press finally starts to get out of the way.

8:06: More housekeeping, although ironically without an illegal immigrant. Maybe they are coming for Blitzer’s job? Blitzer says they are on the honor system for time. Good luck with that.

8:07: He’s still going on as if this is a new idea, not the 98th debate or whatever it is.

8:08: Joe Johns asks Clinton about the economy, and worldwide markets in a tailspin. He wants to know how much the average South Carolinian will get. Umm, WTF? Clinton talks about most of her plan going to deal with the mortgage crisis and a moratorium on foreclosures. She also talks about freezing the interest rate for 5 years, and giving people $650 to deal with energy costs; she segues from that to creating green jobs; she says rebates need to be done right and need to target seniors and ‘working people’ who do not pay income tax. Thanks the CBC for leading on the issue. Obama points out the King march on Washington was for jobs and not only for justice. Says Bush ruined the economy and failed with his leadership on the war and education. He says that Clinton caught up with him on rebates after he mentioned tax cuts, and mentions the same demographics as Clinton. Blitzer asks if $650 is enough. (Seriously, this is what is being discussed). Obama says Social Security is a manner through which you can provide rebates and money for energy. Edwards starts by making up for his gender and race by talking up the CBC and the work of King, and how bad poverty is. He does admit there is no rebates in his package, but says he wants to end poverty. He says the difference is that he provides long term benefits in energy. Clinton just talked about doing this. Edwards says there is a difference on jobs, and the Peru trade deal hurt South Carolina … but Blitzer cuts him off and distinguishes the candidates on long term v. short term. This is an unfocused mess, with everyone giving their own talking points on the economy.

8:16: Obama says green jobs are important, but a long term focus. Says an immediate stimulus is necessary, not just long term. Obama says there are textile mills closed because of Nafta (and hits Clinton on it again). On Peru, Obama says Peru had standards for environment and labor, and the economy is the size of New Hampshire, and concludes by hitting Edwards on China. This is a hard hitting debate from Obama and Edwards so far. Clinton says that her original plan allowed for rebates, but does not want Republicans to alter the tax code, but now is too late and there is no other option. She criticizes Bush instead of responding in turn to Obama. She also talks up the green jobs, specifying some program in Oakland, before allowing that it is a long term issue. Says the CBC will lead on green jobs. This is awful and unfocused. Edwards says his green jobs would be created within 30 days. Edwards’ father is in the audience. Edwards says enforcement of standards lies with Bush. Obama says that he’ll be enforcing the laws in a year. Obama says Edwards gives powerful talk, but he’s taken action on the matter as a community organizer. Obama is criticizing Edwards for talk as compared to his action. Interesting turn of the tables.

8:22: Question for Obama on fiscal responsibility. Obama says that what Clinton said was not true, and it’s part of a pattern of factually inaccurate statements. Wow, Obama on the warpath. Criticizes Bill’s statements on his position on Iraq, or statements on ideas since Reagan. Says improvements matter, and that he’s tried to run a substantive campaign.Clinton responds that’your record and what you say does matter.’ Says Obama continually has to clarify what he said. Clinton says Republican ideas were bad, but Obama liked them “and we can give you the exact quote.” Says there is no evidence on his site on how he would pay for foreign programs. Says that he did oppose the war in 2002, but took the speech off his site and agreed with Bush and voted to fund the war. Says it is about words v. action. Obama said Clinton just lied about his statements and the two start bickering. Criticizes Clinton for being a corporate lawyer on the board of Walmart, and he spent a lifetime fighting Reagan’s policies. Says that appealing to independents and Republicans to build a working majority. Says Clinton and Bill Clinton praised Reagan in Brokaw’s book. Edwards starts yelling and Clinton goes off. Obama jumps in that he does not know who he is running against. This is great. Obama says he did not say the ideas were good ones. Clinton brings in Rezko and calls him a slum landlord, and Blitzer goes … to Edwards, who complains about being left out. Edwards says this squabbling helps no one, and is not about candidates personally. Goes back to fiscal responsibility and touts his plans. Edwards says Obama and he both talked about reform of Social Security, but Hillary does not talk about raising the cap even though it makes sense economically. Says Clinton does not want to talk about raising taxes.

8:33: Johns asks Edwards if lenders have specifically targeted African Americans? Edwards says yes, it’s a racial issue. Then he immediately backs off and says they targeted the lowest income families who tend to be black. Says we cannot pretend there is not a history of slavery and discrimination; that leaves African Americans more vulnerable to predatory lenders. Says he saw 38 foreclosures in one block in Cleveland. That’s because there’s no jobs there, John. I lived there. Says people need to be taught financial responsibility. Blitzer says Greenspan that plans like Clinton’s would prolong the agony by having a freeze. Clinton says economists were wrong for the past years, and it is destroying dreams of Americans, and it is a ‘work out’ not a ‘bail out.’ Says banks can borrow money from Abu Dhabi but people lose their homes. Obama says that helping people is important, not helping the speculators. He says it is not new, and there is a long history of preying on poor people. Echoes Edwards in that more people need access to banks. He talks of his action in introducing a bill two years ago and what he did in Illinois. Talks about the bankruptcy bill of 2001, and Clinton’s statement that she voted for it but hoped it would not pass. Obama gets a chance to respond to the charges on Rezko. Says he did five hours of work in a long firm for a church group, but the biggest issue is people trusting leaders. Clinton responds that she regretted voting for it and said so, and opposed a similar bill in 2005. Talks about an amendment of credit card companies charging over 30 percent interest and Obama voted for it. Also says that Obama did bidding for insurance companies in Illinois on health care. Says she is used to taking fire, and you have to expect attacks ‘in this arena.’ Obama says he voted for it but the limit was too high, and he opposed the bill the entire time. Oh, legislation. This is why Senators are not elected president. Clinton says Obama never takes responsibility and talks up the present votes. It’s a really dishonest line of attack. Obama says he feels bad for Edwards. Obama says he sponsored the bill in question. Says that he’s had family members be victims, and there was a legal problem with it. Says it presents one issue in the wrong light. Says people cannot say anything to get elected.

8:46: Edwards says that it is important to take hard positions. References the CBC taking hard positions. Wonders why Obama voted present. Obama says present votes indicated you had problems with a bill that you would otherwise vote for. Edwards says it would be safer to just not show up. Obama says there was technical problems with votes. Says he opposed legislation that put juveniles in the system as adults, and spoke out against the war. Says Illinois is different from Congress. That took too long.

8:49: On health care, now. Why are African American women better off under Clinton’s plan? She says it is not not government run and includes everyone. Says it will withstand attacks from the right. Says bills will be passed on to everyone, not just those sick. Johns asks if his plan covers illegal immigrants. Obama says it does not, since there are limited resources. Says there is an obligation to cover children. Says the critical issue is how to cover everyone. Says Clintons tried to pass health care in 1993 in the wrong way, that you have to have negotiations in a public setting. Says responsibility includes Congress as well, and that can only be done through the people. Edwards says none of the three plans covers illegal immigrants. Says you can strengthen the net of health care that could include people if there is comprehensive immigration reform. Edwards goes on to say that Obama’s plan is not universal. Obama says he received money from employees, not lobbyists. He says this is a legitimate policy debate, and that he disagrees with a mandate on adults that forces people to buy health insurance. Says Edwards allows that it might mean taking money out of people’s paychecks. Segues to his stock discussion of lowering costs and copayments. Says his plan reduces costs through catastrophic accident. Obama says that it allows for anyone to opt in, and that Edwards and Clinton do not coverthose with hardship arguments. Obama mentions Massachusetts, and Edwards says this is like the Social Security debate. Clinton says that you cannot get universal health care if you do not start out by standing for it. Says this is a core Democratic issue, and she will ‘go to the mat for it.’ Talks about Obama being for single payer in the past, and this being separate. She links it back to the ‘present’ votes and cites Sweet (I think) who said it was taking a pass. Obama gets 30 seconds and Edwards wishes him luck. Says if you are not making health care affordable that you cannot mandate it. Says that people will purchase the health care if it is affordable. Says that a single payer is only preferable in theory. Says that Hillary’s presentations have evolved. This is tense.

9:03: Moving to Iraq for the first time in a long time, it seems. Question about her statement that the next president has to end the war. Does she want to end the war or win it? She says she wants to bring troops home, and there is no military solution. Says that ‘the so called surge’ was able to pacify some areas, but the purpose of the surge was to move the Iraqi government quickly towards resolution. Says the political debate is motivating Iraqis. Blitzer asks Edwards about McCain saying the surge is working. Edwards says the surge was intended to create an environment for political progress. He jokes about even Bush recognizing it. Says there has been no meaningful political progres, then just a little. Edwards says everyone is committed to ending the war, but how quickly and aggressively is a question. Obama gives the careful getting out as careless getting in line. Says it depends on what happens in the next year, but creating a stable Iraqi government with no permanent bases is the goal. Obama says that financially the war is not sustainable, and Al Qaeda is stronger than ever since 2001 and needs to be addressed. Clinton says she will move as quickly as possible, and agrees with Obama on not knowing what will be inherited from Bush. Clinton mentions Bush’s argument of pushing for permanent bases in Iraq without the consent of Congress. Touts the CBC working on this legislation.

Time for a commercial debate. No rules, coming up. I hope Kucinich wanders up on stage. That would be high comedy.

9:15: The crowd laughs at the inability of CNN to exchange podiums for chairs.

9:19: Seven minutes later, the chairs are in place. Question for Obama on Rangel saying that black voters should do not what makes them feel good but is what is best for the country. Obama says the notion is right and women should vote that way and white males, Says he is running because he wants to bring the country together, and looks forward to working with him as President. Awkward question.

9:21: More awkward question, on whether African Americans will be seen differently if there is an African American president. Says that he is on the vanguard of issues Kings worked for, like poverty. This is as pointless as the MSNBC debate. Really, really, really dumb. Clinton respects his commitment to end poverty, and talks of working at the Children’s Defense fund after graduating law school. It’s why she is in legal service, etc. She wants a ‘reality check’ on how to end poverty. Says African Americans lost income under Bush, but were gained income in the 90s. She may as well be screaming ‘the 90s were great! Let’s go back!’ Obama says that he has put forward a poverty plan, but it’s more than talking about it during a campaign, and he worked in low income areas. He says that it’s not about race, but people want to move beyond it for positive change, partially blaming the media. Says there is an “African American, a woman, and John” to laughter, and talks up the Democratic Party on the issues. Edwards cites his battles with Bill O’Reilly on homeless veterans, and other work. It’s a resume battle and Richardson is nowhere to be seen. Edwards tells a story about poverty.

9:31: Question for Obama on Bill Clinton being the first black president. What does Obama think? Hillary chuckles. Obama cites Bill’s affinity with the African American community that still exists that is well earned. Says that the progress made indicates that people can change, and Bill is emblematic of that. Says that he’d have to look into Bill’s dancing abilities ‘before he judges whether he was a brother.’ Hillary says that can be arranged, and this is suddenly a love in. What a weird shift. Clinton says the stage celebrates King. Cites the ‘content of our character’ comment of King. Says the differences between them have a responsibility to be brought out. Obama says that there should not be too much civility. He says that ingoring the race and gender of a candidate does not mean you ignore racial problems in the country. Clinton moves into gender inequality as Obama agrees. There’s absolutely no attacks anymore. How strange. She goes onto attacking Republicans for not addressing these issues. John Edwards says his father who is in the audience (and worked in a mill!) taught him that people that work in the mill and own the mill are equal. Says America is not just about rich folks who can move out of problem neighborhoods.

9:40: Clinton is asked about Bill overshadowing her, as the audience oooohs. She defends him advocating on her behalf, but the campaign is not about spouses. Says what matters is who is the best president on day 1 and who can withstand the Republican attacks. Says it is not about them, but about the people, citing her 35 years of experience. It’s turning into a list of talking points, and I get the feeling attacks are coming. She says politics is not a game. Obama says he would expect Bill to campaign vigorously. Obama mentions that he is troubled to the extent of which his record is portrayed. Obama tries to distinguish withstanding the attacks from redrawing the political boundries to get through legislation they are talking about. Says that Bush and Cheney have given their party a bad name, and its a crucial opportunity to expand the Democratic base, and that there has been record turnout, noting that he is not taking all the credit. Edwards says people are voting for who is going to oppose McCain, and who can campaign against him everywhere in America. Edwards says he will campaign in the south against McCain. Edwards says it is important who can be competitive in rural areas, joking it is not a racial issue. Cites the CNN poll that put him up the most against McCain. Edwards is really tiptoing carefully on electability. Blitzer jumps in suddenly for another commercial break. Cue the overly dramatic music ….

9:52: Blitzer says there is a ‘raging conversation’ going on at CNNPolitics.com. But does not say what it is on.

9:53: Obama says he won rural areas in Nevada, and moves on to the issue of faith, saying that the Democrats did not reach out to evangelicals because of ‘choice’ or gay rights. Clever way to rebut the Muslim spears, but a bit heavy handed as he continually mentions he is a Christian. Hillary jumps in that there are polls that show her winning too. Clinton says a McCain nomination means a general election on national security and says she is the best on that issue. Says she has been there and done that and is still here. Edwards now says it is not about polls. Edwards cites campaign finance reform that McCain stands for and says that he made a commitment to not hiring corporate lobbyists. She says Edwards draws artificial distinctions and accepts money from people related to corporate lobbyists. Edwards says people expect something for their money. Edwards defends money he accept from trial lawyers who want him to stand up for rights in the courtroom.  Clinton says there is no difference, and she wants to get campaign finance. She says its important to look at the interests, not who rejects the lobbyists. Obama says no one has clean hands, but there are distinctions who can be drawn. Obama goes back to national security issues, and says that you take on McCain not by being like John McCain, but you have to have a strong contrast who stands against the politics of fear. Says he would not hesitate to strike if someone threatened America, but you have to describe a new foreign policy that looks at negotiating with enemies, instead of battling on GOP territory. Edwards says you have to appeal to youth and prevent them from going to Al Qaeda. Wants America to be a shining light. Reaganesque, ironically.

10:01: If MLK were alive - and Wolf points out he is not - why should he endorse you? Edwards drops the name of MLK III and  says poverty and equality. Cites the Voting Rights Act and people disengaged who do not vote. Obama says King would not endorse but would hold people accountable. Talks about change being from the bottom down, specifically mentions women a couple of times. Clinton says change comes from the American people, but King pushed political leaders and pushed them to be part of the movement, citing Clyburn and John Lewis (if you drank every time she mentioned the CBC tonight, you’d have been passed out by 9:30). She says she intends to follow in his lead, and everyone shakes hands as Wolf thanks everyone.

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Live Blog Of MSNBC Democratic Debate In Las Vegas, Nevada (January 15, 2007)

8:20: Dennis Kucinich has apparently lost his appeal and will not be appearing on stage tonight. That leaves Clinton, Obama, and Edwards.

8:47: Exit polls and early results seem to indicate a good night for Romney in Michigan, even though a few polls are still open.

8:53: Over to MSNBC. Their debate graphic is a boxing ring, which immediately makes me wonder if the debate is rigged. I’m affirmed in that stance by the news that Hillary Clinton was endorsed by and will campaign with Ugly Betty.

8:54: Chuck Todd is in the house, and predicts race will come up on the birthday of MLK.

8:56: Candidates are paraded on stage, Obama, Clinton, Edwards left to right. Harry Reid shows up to hug everybody and lead the debate in a moment of ceremonial non-productivity.

8:57: They’re sitting in a conference table that looks like it was an outcast from a bad King Arthur movie. Chuck Todd wonders what questions the candidates will ask each other, as if they’ll be anything really different. Olbermann is curious if the debate format makes it harder to attack someone sitting down. Seriously, that’s the analysis you’re missing. Apparently Republicans are dying to sit down, too.

9:00: Mitt Romney gets his big win in Michigan, and the Republican race is officially mucked up.

9:02: Harry Reid gets another shout out in yet another moment where nothing is accomplished. I think that’s enough Reid-karma for tonight. No applause tonight, and lights for time. There’s another moderator with just email questions.

9:04: Question to Clinton on how did we get here on race. Clinton says neither race nor gender matters, and cites Edwards being shockingly the son of a mill worker. Clinton says sometimes supporters are ‘uncontrollable’ in their exuberance. She recognizes MLK. Obama gets the same question and agrees. Edwards agrees and decides to add that he lived in the south when there was segregation there. He saw it! He lived with it! He takes a bold stance against going back to segregation.

9:09: On accountability, Russert asks if he regrets pushing the story. Obama agrees with Clinton that there were overzealous staffers, and that’s why he spoke yesterday. He says it was not a deliberate attempt to marginalize him as “the” black candidate. Russert asks about his campaign support falling off in NH. Umm, Tim, Clinton got a ten point bounce; Obama stayed more or less where he was. Obama says change happens because of what people say, not what candidates say. Russert asks if Robert Johnson will be asked to leave Clinton’s campaign after the faux pas. Clinton mentions the clarification he issued (that was complete BS) and moves on to a general line about people listening to what candidates say, not endorsers. Clinton says the comments were out of bounds “and he said that.” True, if today is opposites day.

9:15: Why choose between a black man or a woman? Edwards says it is about change and what type of change you want, etc. It’s personal for him! What is a white male to do? The audience laughs at the inanity of the question. Fifteen minutes in, and we’ve got undeniably the worst question of the night. Can we get to something that matters?

9:17: Question on women voting for Obama. Was his “likable enough” comment the cause of his loss? Obama points out how much of a non issue this is. I’m starting to regret live blogging. Get to something that at least might matter, please. Question for Edwards on whether he tag teamed with Obama. Edwards takes a bold stance in favor of telling the truth. Clinton gives him the stare of death.

9:22: Someone starts yelling in the back of the room briefly. Clinton is asked about the general election race. Clinton says there will be unity, and that what matters is who is ready on day 1, etc. She cites the highest home foreclosure rate in the country. Her experience is “rooted in the voices” she has heard. When asked if Edwards and Obama are prepared enough, she says that is up to the voters to decide. Obama is asked about saying he is not an executive officer. He says that being President means setting an agenda and having a vision, not making sure paperwork is done effectively. Bold argument to make, in that it’s almost surely going to be used against him should he be nominated.

9:26: Greatest strength and weaknesses: Obama, bringing people together. His weakness is organizing his desk, he needs people around him to do that. Edwards’ greatest strength is fighting for his whole life. He had to fight to survive! His weakness is a powerful emotional response. He tells a story about how he feels it in a personal way. Clinton says she wants to be an instrument for helping children. Change, Change, Change. Her weakness is impatience for not getting more change! Change! She segues into an attack on Obama, but that being president is being an executive officer. She says Bush failed at managing the bureaucracy. Obama says you do have to be a good manager, and hold your team accountable. He says in a light moment Bush was always on time and never lost any papers, but did not bring in different perspectives.

9:33: Question for Obama about the Muslim emails and slurs. He confirms he is a Christian and took the oath on a Bible, and leads the pledge of allegiance on occasion. He says people are smarter than to believe that. Again cites real issues that could be discussed, although denying this isn’t as much as a waste of time as the first 15 minutes.

9:39: Back from commercials.

9:40: Clinton is asked about Citigroup and Merrill Lynch getting loans from overseas. Clinton says they are ’sovereign wealth funds.’ She would like to know more, but looks at why this happened, specifically citing these companies betting on subprime mortgages. Edwards agrees with Clinton on calls for transparency. He further says all growth is as a result of the top 1% or multinational corporations. (Fact check?) He says the middle class does not feel secure in their jobs or health insurance. Obama says the lack of an energy policy is at root of the problem. He also says it happened because there was a lack of oversight by the Bush administration.

9:45: Edwards regrets his vote on the bankruptcy bill in 2001. He says universal health care and fighting for more change can help. He says getting rid of banks as an intermediary in student loans also can help. Clinton also regrets her vote on the 2001 bill, and points out it does not happen. She talks about changes to regulation that could help prevent another Countrywide disaster. Obama says he opposed both bankruptcy bills, and cites a bill he submitted a year and half ago. Cites the influence of special interest lobbyists on the issue. Calls for relief for those who cannot meet payments for health care based reasons.

9:52: Obama is asked about changes to the tax codes, and says he would consider exempting the middle class from dividends and capital gains, but that those like Buffet should not be taxed at a lower rate than his secretary. Refers to Edwards’ example of the top 1 percent. Clinton is asked about long term effects of the foreclosures. She says that interest rates will stabilize the market, and is in line with what the Fed is doing in the monetary area of the economy. Talks more about her stimulus program, which is intended for now, and not on or after inauguration, so I’ll leave the details out. Joking referral to timed lights.

9:58: Time for questions from each candidate to the others. Edwards says Obama recently passed Clinton for how much they raised from drug companies. Obama talks about the details of the donations not being directly from the companies, and that he has a record fo small donations. He says he wants to fight for public financing of campaigns. Apparently, there’s now only one question. Clinton says Bush is making the argument that he can make an agreement with the government in Iraq and have it be binding without passing the Senate. Obama says “Well we can work on this Hillary.” He says there is unity on the matter. Obama talks at length about his views on Iraq as Clinton looks like she loses interest. Clinton agrees on the pledge to start withdrawing troops, and Edwards’ cites his aggressiveness. Russert wonders why they did not pledge to him to be out by 2013. Obama says there may be a need for some troop presence to protect the embassy and fight Al Qaeda. Clinton says it is more than Bush, saying McCain wants troops there for 100 years. Edwards says everyone wants to protect the embassy, but there will be no permanent bases. Obama says you are either going after terrorists or you are not. Williams seems to indicate that this is his question. Edwards says he will keep troops in Kuwait, and that is different because it is not an occupation.

10:13: Back from the last commercial. Will she vigorously enforce statutes that require ROTC and military recruiters to have campus access? Yes. She talks at length about the valor of troops, and signing bonuses being taken away from wounded soldiers. She says campuses can work out ways aside from ROTC as a means of meeting the standard. Obama also says yes, saying how much more poorer communities are bearing the burden of fighting the war. Talks about an enlargement of the army to help out people going on multiple cycles. Edwards will also enforce it. He says its more than those who are fighting, but also homeless voters. Talks about narrowing gap between regular workers and military workers. Obama says he could not believe veterans paid for meals and phone calls in Walter Reed. Clinton says the traumatic brain injury in particular is problematic.

10:20: Yucca Mountain time! Williams points out that everyone promises to end it. Obama says he will end Yucca, as it is not based on sound science, and does not want to spend billions more on a situation that is not safe. He wants to get experts together. Clinton voted against it and held a hearing on it. Clinton points out that an Obama supporter wants Yucca and Edwards voted for it twice. Obama says its a testimony to the science that he never supported it as Clinton gives him the ‘who are you kidding’ face. Edwards says he is against it, but moreover is against nuclear power. Clinton points out that he voted for it, but Edwards points out that that was before some documents were revealed as forged, and he changed on it many years ago.

10:24: Obama defends his vote on the Energy Bill because of how much of an investment it had for green energy. Says if he could find a safe way to make nuclear power than it should be on the table. Obama wants to see where the science goes. Clinton says that the Energy Bill was the Cheney-Lobbyist bill that had enormous giveaways. Talks about ‘breaking the lock’ of special interests, as suddenly Obama is status quo and Clinton is change.

10:28: Edwards says the nuclear power does not solve the problem, and therefore cannot be part of the problem (?). He says Clinton raised more money from the lobbyists she referred to than anyone else. He says investing in more biofuels could help, and a moratorium on coal power plants. Clinton says her plan has been put forward, and does not allow for more coal plants. Obama talks about reducing the consumption of energy and the need to get more efficient.

10:32: Why not English as an official language? Edwards talks about a path to citizenship, and earned citizenship, as Williams points out that does not answer the question at all. He talks about learning to speak English to become a citizen.

10:33: Clinton is asked about the statement of a pollster who said there was not a lot of affinity of Latino voters for black candidates. She says it is a historical analysis, but that there needs to be focus on issues, saying she regrets not talking about more black and brown issues tonight.

10:35: Obama says Latinos in Illinois voted for him. He specifically cites standing with Kennedy and McCain during the immigration debate.

10:36: Email question for Obama about black dropouts from schools. Obama says it is about youth starting behind, and that early childhood education is critical early on. Obama talks about families and black fathers needing to do more. Clinton talks about families being crucial, and about a school she helped found in New York. Edwards says universal pre-K for every children is needed, as are second chance schools.

10:39: The leading cause of death for young men is gun violence. Clinton is asked about statements she made about requiring license for guns. Clinton says she is against illegal guns but is a realist. She says she wants a registry of people who are felons or mentally ill. She also talks about the assault weapons ban. Obama also allows that he cannot get a mandatory registry done. He talks about actions on illegal guns getting fixed. Talks about the difference between lawful gun owners and students who are subject to violence. Edwards says it is important to protect second Amendment rights, and that you can also protect against assault weapons. Anyone want to mention guns as protection? Anyone? Bueller?

10:47: Brian Williams welcomes us back to Los Angeles and people jeer, and Williams rubs in that he’s up $130. Williams asks Clinton about saying Bush threatened in 2004, but said that Al Qaeda attacked Gordon Brown. She stands by her comments that ‘we face a very serious adversary.” Williams is briefly shown on camera and looks to be falling asleep. Obama says America has been dominated by a politics of fear since 9/11, and compliments Clinton for her work in New York, but that citing it in the way Clinton did was a politics of fear. Says Iraq was a consequence of such thinking. Clinton clarifies to Russert that she was not saying Obama would be tested quicker than her, but rather that Al Qaeda tested Brown quickly. She says there is a difference between using fear like Bush and recognizing the gravity of the spectre of terrorism.

10:54: Edwards is asked if it was appropriate for him to talk to Musharraf the day Bhutto died. Edwards says he only requested a call, and gave tough talk to Musharraf, including calls for democratization and independent investigators.

10:56: When did you decide to run for President? Clinton, over New Years a year ago. She somehow segues to a plug for a town hall in Reno. I wonder if Dangle is handling security. Edwards made the decision in December a year ago. Obama says the time was the same, in December in 06. He touts his family handling the stress. He says the question is not whether he could win, but whether he should. None of these timeframes are accurate in any but the most esoteric way.

And that’s a wrap, for what was really not that memorable a debate.

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Live Blog Of ABC News/Fox News/WMUR Republican Debate In New Hampshire (01/05/07)

This evening, the Republican presidential candidates will participate in the the ABC News/Facebook/WMUR debate in New Hampshire. The participating candidates are Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, Mitt Romney, Fred Thompson and Mike Huckabee.

7:00: Charles Gibson is explaining the criteria for being in the debate, not mentioning who was excluded. Gibson says the first 45 minutes will be discussions on three topics (perhaps akin to the NPR debate). The second half will be a more traditional format.

7:03: Diane Sawyer’s disembodied voice takes over, as she discusses the situation with Stephanopoulos. They review poll information and what not of both sides, noting that Obama and McCain have momentum.

7:05: ABC has their political team lined up as if they’re about to film a glamor shot of them walking down the street.

7:06: Facebook is here! Diane Sawyer says Facebook does not decide the debate, as they segue into people on the streets.

7:07: The press room is in disarray as the internet suddenly goes out.

7:08: The Republicans are on stage, left to right: McCain, Thompson, Paul, Romney, Huckabee, and Giuliani, who is smiling as broadly as possible. They have desks.

7:09: Candidate George Bush is contrasted with Bush at war. Would the candidates run against Bush’s foreign policy or for it?

7:11: Huckabee says there are times of arrogance, and that strength has to be used with full understanding of strength, specifically referencing Rumsfeld. Says we should go to war with the army we need, and with irresistible force, and not letting politicians interrupt.

7:12: Thompson says Huckabee has changed, that the number of troops was not what Huckabee was referencing. Says we are not arrogant, and that a war with radical Islam has been declared against us. Says he agrees there was a flawed strategy, and that they are winning now.
7:14: Giuliani references Bush going on offense after 9/11 to prevent another attack, and positive changes have been instituted as well as mistakes having been made. Giuliani says a major problem is that the military is far too small.

7:15: Gibson wonders if they believe in the Bush doctrine of preemptive war if the country feels threatened. McCain says he agrees and gives Bush credit for not having another attack in America since 9/11, since Bush would have been blamed for any other attack. Says America is not safe, but America is safer. McCain says he was the only one who disagreed at the time with Rumsfeld, but there is success now in Iraq. References Petraeus. Also McCain thanks Giuliani for leadership on 9/11.

7:17: Paul says he agreed with the foreign policy that Bush ran on, and compares Bush’s foreign policy to Clinton’s. Says this is the first time a nation accepted as a policy that “we start the wars.” Talks of the nature of the threat of terrorism. Says America is not attacked because it is free and prosperous, but rather because we invade and occupy, and have done so long before 9/11.

7:19: Romney says Paul does not understand radical jihadism, as it is intent on bringing down western and free governments. Romney says strategy has to be moved from military threats to help move Islam towards rule of law in the Middle East to help them, and that the military is part of the solution.

7:21: Thompson says preemption did not suddenly appear as an option. Says America has many threats now, and that different weaponry is being faced, not Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD). Says we should go in where “we should and where we are able to.”

7:22: Giuliani says he gave back 10 million to Saudis, and has nothing to do with foreign policy, but about perverting religion into hating freedom of religion and freedom of women.

7:23: Paul wants everyone to imagine if someone did this to us. Romney interrupts and says that Paul is reading the propaganda not their writings. Cites Bhutto and Sadat as Paul tries to interrupt back in vain. Thompson asked who we invaded before 9/11, and Paul says there was bases.

7:25: Huckabee says that he supported the surge and the President when Romney did not and Romney criticized Bush on 60 Minutes, but he is not running for Bush’s third term. Everyone tries to interrupt, and Huckabee says the threat comes from the jihadists, not Islam.

7:26: Romney and Huckabee argue over whether he read Huckabee’s article. Romney said he supported the surge from the beginning and McCain deserves credit, and to not mischaracterize his position. Huckabee rebuts “Which one?” to a huge WHOA in the press room. He half-heartedly defends himself before Paul gets the nod.

7:29: Paul asks why people attack the US and not Switzerland. Giuliani gives a laundry list of non-American sites such as Bali and the Munich Olympics. This is escalating into a giant argument.

7:30: Giuliani says there is a need for more interaction and trade. Paul asks why we support their dictators. A little more yelling at him, and Gibson interacts.

7:31: Question from Bush! He asks what principles people believe in.

7:32: McCain talks about principles — focuses on his basic campaign theme of restoring trust in government. Chides his opponents for not backing the surge as strongly as he did, then attacks Democrats saying that if we had done what they wanted “Al Qaeda would be trumpeting around the world.”

7:34: Now, onto McCain’s principles…this should be brief. And as expected, he doesn’t really discuss principles other than family and the desire to strengthen family through better schools, healthcare, economy and security. *shock* Romney didn’t actually discuss his principles.

7:37: Gibson goes over the flip-flop record of each candidate. Giuliani says that there are some beliefs you change and some you never will. Says even Reagan could not accomplish every single thing he wanted, but the general philosophy stays the same. Huckabee says its about principles deep inside us. Huckabee cites the Declaration of Independence. This is getting a lot of eye rolls in this room but will go over great among actual people. (Reporters are not people, I have learned.)

7:39: Not a right to be happy, but to pursue happiness. Policies reflect challenges of the moment, and priorities certainly change.

7:40: Thompson says principles should be based on the Constitution and separation of powers and federalism, and that you can learn from looking at what the founders stated. Cites the 10th Amendment

7:42: Paul asks why there are deviations from the Constitution; cites the declaration of war, monetary system, welfare state. Asks why we treat others like a bully. He is starting to rant about all his beliefs at once. He’s losing his self control.

7:43: Moving on to health care. News clip say that forcing people to buy their own, and not employer based is a larger change. Gibson says we are the only country that does not insure everyone.

7:44: Giuliani says we have the best health care system in the world. He says that people come to the US for health care. Thompson and McCain agree. Giuliani says the problem is not enough people buying their own health care.

7:45: Gibson says the math of tax cuts does not add up.

7:46: McCain says the problem is not quality, but inflation that needs to be dealt with so that health care costs become reasonable. He does the preventative measures schtick, and concludes by insulting Canadian medicare.

7:48: Romney touts the Massachusetts health care plan, which required no new money. Romney says a connector between people and the companies helps and solves the problems the report mentioned. Romney should delve into details more often, he’s really at his best right here. Finishes by attacking Hillarycare.

7:49: Paul says the problem is the trillion dollar war, although inflation is a problem. Paul mentions people in America going to India for heart surgery. (Medical tourism is real). Talks about borrowing money from China to finance the war. Good, but he’s getting shrill again.

7:50: Thompson has to be woken up to answer the question. Seriously. He’s stunned by Ron Paul. Paul jokes about Thompson trying to understand, and that sacrificing care is not something people want to do. Says the markets work, but total coverage will probably never be achieved.

7:52: Romney says he has not backed off of mandates, as Thompson jokes about him. Says the principle of personal responsibility is key. Thompson asks what the penalty for not agreeing to the mandate. Says the question is personal responsibility for those who can buy insurance. Says he would not mandate his plan at the federal level, but he would recommend it for every state, but disagreements are acceptable, citing Schwarzenegger.

7:55: Huckabee attacks the health care system, and how it waits until catastrophic injury, and prevention is key. He’s said this before.

7:56: Romney and Giuliani both try to jump in and Giuliani wins, touting his health savings account, that incentivizes wellness. This is not really persuasive in the amounts Giuliani talks about.

7:57: Gibson challenges people to substantively address real problems with paying for health care and they all demur from him. Weak.

7:58: McCain says that payment should be on totality, not individually based. He says the pharmaceutical companies are a problem and should compete. Romney says htey are not the problem, McCain interrupts that they are. Romney cites certain problems in the details and again is really compelling compared to him addressing broad themes.

Commercial Break!

8:04: Gibson jokes that no one ran away. Question regarding illegal immigration on McCain. Does he have the same plan for a path to citizenship?

8:05: McCain says sure but that the American people lost faith in government and that the borders need to be secured. Also says those illegals who committed crimes ought be deported. Also that there should be temporary worker program. Says ultimately they are God’s children and the issue needs to be dealt with delicately.

8:07: Romney says that allowing people to stay here is a form of amnesty, and there should be no pathway to legalization for those who are here. Tancredo-ish for sure. Says it is unfair for those to stay. McCain tries to interrupt to point out the pragmatic problems.

8:09: Giuliani says there should be a system at the borders, and that the priority has to be illegal immigrants who are here who have committed crimes, citing Romney’s idea as unrealistic. Cites his plan for an ID card, and those who do not come forward should be deported.

8:10: McCain says Romney described his plan as not amnesty and was fair. Romney says it is a technicality, and Giuliani tries to interrupt. Romney says all plans were reasonable but did not endorse them. McCain says it was more than a fine, and says Romney “can spend all your fortune on attack ads but it still will not be true” to another WHOA in the press room. Romney is taking a beating. Romney rebuts saying allowing people to stay here is amnesty, and there should be no special right. They’re talking over each other and McCain says grandmothers should not be deported. Thompson says Romney had a quote about supporting the plan, Romney says he was misquoted, and McCain with another zing as he says if you keep changing your positions that you will be misquoted. Lots of cross talk and Romney agrees that deporting 12 million is unreasonable. Giuliani says Reagan did amnesty, and would be in one of Mitt’s negative commercials. Wow. Giuliani says that what has to be done is stopping it at the border and imposing conditions is not amnesty. Differentiates the Giuliani/McCain plan from the Thompson/Romney plan on penalties. Thompson says rewarding people for behavior in any way is amnesty. Paul and Huckabee are completely staying out of this. Thompson says the problem is taking responsibility on the issue, and sanctuary cities are a problem, such as Giuliani’s NYC. Giuliani says that he only allowed children to go to school, and illegals to go to the hospital and report crimes. Thompson says that Giuliani tried to sue to overcome a bill outlawing amnesty.

8:19: Huckabee is brought in with a weird line that no one here understands. He says that a fence can be built in 18 months, and that he agrees with Thompson that it is about national security. Says people should then go back to get in the back of the line, because people in the US should not live in fear.

8:21: Paul says he gets worried about a tamper proof ID because everyone would logically have to have such an ID. Says that the excessive welfare state is the root of the problem, and are an incentive for people to come. Romney wants to understand that the discussion is about illegal immigration not legal immigration.

8:23: What if Obama is the nominee? Why not vote for Obama specifically? Silly sort of question. Says Obama’s health care plan would break the bank. Says Washington is the problem. Says that he would cite change he brought in the private sector and in the Olympics.

8:25: Thompson says Obama adopted the positions of every liberal interest group, and that he’s not been definitive on that so far. Talks about lowering taxes and avoiding the welfare state that would hurt America in terms of national security.

8:27: McCain says that he agrees Romney is the candidate of change. Says Obama has no security credentials. Romney says the personal barbs are not necessary. Romney says experience did not matter in Iowa and a record is not enough. Giuliani says Obama has no executive experience; says it could be change for bad. Says Obama voted on a timetable for retreat. Huckabee cites differences on 2nd Amendment and the role of government, and taxes and national defense and same sex marriage. He points to Huckabee for broadening the debate. Says that on the other hand that Obama excites people about leading across the spectrum.

8:31: Paul cites similarities to Obama, in that their campaigns both appeal to youth. He says personal liberty and economic arguments are the difference. He finishes by criticizing the welfare state.

8:32: Question about high gas prices.

8:33: Paul says gas prices are inflationary, as it has raised as gold stayed flat. Also says that oil has dramatically increased as a result of the war. Talks about the devaluing of the dollar causing the problem.

8:34: McCain says some of the oil money will go to terrorists and dictators, and greenhouse gases need to be addressed, and technology has to be reduced. He cites enough evidence that the planet could be in danger. No one jumps in to that.

8:35: Is Thompson worried about excess profits of oil companies? He takes note of it, but says nothing can be done. Says throwing rocks at each other will do nothing; cites Chinese demand for oil. He says diversification of oil suppliers is necessary, along with clean coal. Says there is no strong regulation in this country. (Chrysler? Airlines?) Giuliani says an Apollo program has to be done to diversify. Cites nuclear power specifically and a lack of progress in the last 30 years. Cites bipartisanship in getting a man on the moon. Huckabee says lower taxes on innovation would incentify things. Also dramatic incentives, such as a billion dollar reward on a 100mpg car. Thompson cracks that there will be no windfall profit tax on that. He says that McCain is right that we pay for both sides of the war on terror. Romney says we can get to where these people say but it will require a far bigger investment in innovation. Says that defense against tort lawsuits is a root of the problem.

And it is over!

Gibson introduces the Democratic candidates, and they all briefly share the stage. A whole bunch of really awkward handshakes and quite a few hugs! When Rudy and Hillary met each other, there’s some hoots and hollers in the press room.

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